Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

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tom0311
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by tom0311 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:38 am

Denian Arcoleo wrote:I find the whole thing odd. Dylan is a hugely wealthy folk/rock songwriter. There are several genuine geniuses of actual literature (Murakami springs immediately to mind) who are far more eligible for this prize IMO. I think the Nobel committee are engaging in PR manoeuvres that are beneath them.
One definition of literature is written works with lasting artistic merit. Music definitely fits into that definition, I think it's fair to say. So it is 'actual literature' after all ;) Whether you like it or not is entirely different.
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:07 pm

tom0311 wrote:One definition of literature is written works with lasting artistic merit. Music definitely fits into that definition...
Well, I'd say that music is music and literature is literature...(obviously). Your definition removes the need for separate prizes for literature and music. If that's the case then just have a Nobel prize for 'general artistic merit'.

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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Pat Dodson » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:53 pm

Update: it seems Bob Dylan has written a speech (presumably of acceptance and gratitude) to be read in his absence at the forthcoming presentation event. A little more here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38209520

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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by tom0311 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:17 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote: Well, I'd say that music is music and literature is literature...(obviously). Your definition removes the need for separate prizes for literature and music. If that's the case then just have a Nobel prize for 'general artistic merit'.

It's an Oxford dictionaries definition, not mine. I can see both sides of the argument really, but I don't have a problem with him winning the award. If I didn't like his music I probably would have a problem with it :D
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:06 pm

I'm afraid this award will just add to the way that popular culture is swallowing up everything else. For many--most!--people, there is no cultural space outside of rock and roll and television. This may inadvertently validate that situation.
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Pat Dodson » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:35 pm

The BBC reports that Bob Dylan has agreed to receive his Nobel Prize at a private ceremony and might submit his required lecture in taped form.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39429032

Another rather ambivalent step by Bob Dylan. I hope he will donate the very substantial prize money of $900,000 to a musicians' charity.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:41 pm

Dylan's whole approach to this has been weird. Not to mention that he's a songwriter, not a literary figure. The Nobel committee were just cynically courting the populist vote IMO.

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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Dirck Nagy » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:22 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:I find the whole thing odd. Dylan is a hugely wealthy folk/rock songwriter. There are several genuine geniuses of actual literature (Murakami springs immediately to mind) who are far more eligible for this prize IMO. I think the Nobel committee are engaging in PR manoeuvres that are beneath them.
+1 on actual literature.

"Idiot Wind" "Prometheus Unbound!"

The Nobel committee can do as they please, of course, but when I trouble myself to think about this, all I feel is embarrassment. IMO he's right up there on the podium with the Beatles as "the World's Most Overrated Pop Phenomenon."

I share Joni Mitchell's opinion:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/22 ... 20100422/2

Leo Kottke had fun things to say about him too:
https://youtu.be/f2KoIWEAdaM

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good!
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by RainyDayMan » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:12 am

Dirck Nagy wrote:
Denian Arcoleo wrote:I find the whole thing odd. Dylan is a hugely wealthy folk/rock songwriter. There are several genuine geniuses of actual literature (Murakami springs immediately to mind) who are far more eligible for this prize IMO. I think the Nobel committee are engaging in PR manoeuvres that are beneath them.
+1 on actual literature.

"Idiot Wind" "Prometheus Unbound!"

The Nobel committee can do as they please, of course, but when I trouble myself to think about this, all I feel is embarrassment. IMO he's right up there on the podium with the Beatles as "the World's Most Overrated Pop Phenomenon."

I share Joni Mitchell's opinion:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/22 ... 20100422/2

Leo Kottke had fun things to say about him too:
https://youtu.be/f2KoIWEAdaM

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good!
I do not know what overrated means. The Beatle's music sounds as fresh today as when written over a decade ago. Try to top that. This is a phenomenon that will never be repeated.

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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Adrian Allan » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:43 am

Can somebody who has a high opinion of Bob Dylan in purely literary terms please copy and paste some song lyrics for scrutiny that stand alone as a work of literature?
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Adrian Allan
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Adrian Allan » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:43 am

sorry double post
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Adrian Allan » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:44 am

RainyDayMan wrote:
Dirck Nagy wrote:
Denian Arcoleo wrote:I find the whole thing odd. Dylan is a hugely wealthy folk/rock songwriter. There are several genuine geniuses of actual literature (Murakami springs immediately to mind) who are far more eligible for this prize IMO. I think the Nobel committee are engaging in PR manoeuvres that are beneath them.
+1 on actual literature.

"Idiot Wind" "Prometheus Unbound!"

The Nobel committee can do as they please, of course, but when I trouble myself to think about this, all I feel is embarrassment. IMO he's right up there on the podium with the Beatles as "the World's Most Overrated Pop Phenomenon."

I share Joni Mitchell's opinion:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/22 ... 20100422/2

Leo Kottke had fun things to say about him too:
https://youtu.be/f2KoIWEAdaM

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good!
I do not know what overrated means. The Beatle's music sounds as fresh today as when written over a decade ago. Try to top that. This is a phenomenon that will never be repeated.
Try over four decades, over five for some.
D'Ammassa Spruce/Spruce Double Top

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StGeorge
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by StGeorge » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:00 am

I love Bob, have grown up with his music and influence, and could not be happier. He is a true poet of our time. I say congrats!!! 8)
StGeorge, Slayer of Dragons.

RainyDayMan
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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by RainyDayMan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:32 am

Adrian Allan wrote:
RainyDayMan wrote:
Dirck Nagy wrote: +1 on actual literature.

"Idiot Wind" "Prometheus Unbound!"

The Nobel committee can do as they please, of course, but when I trouble myself to think about this, all I feel is embarrassment. IMO he's right up there on the podium with the Beatles as "the World's Most Overrated Pop Phenomenon."

I share Joni Mitchell's opinion:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/22 ... 20100422/2

Leo Kottke had fun things to say about him too:
https://youtu.be/f2KoIWEAdaM

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good!
I do not know what overrated means. The Beatle's music sounds as fresh today as when written over a decade ago. Try to top that. This is a phenomenon that will never be repeated.
Try over four decades, over five for some.
Of course, five decades or approaching five. Lennon and McCartney keep company with Gershwin , Cole Porter , and Jerome Kern as timeless songwriters .

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Re: Congratulations to Bob Dylan !!

Post by Dirck Nagy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:04 pm

RainyDayMan wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:
RainyDayMan wrote:
I do not know what overrated means. The Beatle's music sounds as fresh today as when written over a decade ago. Try to top that. This is a phenomenon that will never be repeated.
Try over four decades, over five for some.
Of course, five decades or approaching five. Lennon and McCartney keep company with Gershwin , Cole Porter , and Jerome Kern as timeless songwriters .
Well, I wonder what will happen when L & M's massive PR organization fades away? Perhaps things will change when royalties can no longer be collected.

Will "She loves you, yeah yeah yeah" stand the test of time as well as "L' homme armé" or "Greensleeves"?

I won't live to see it, of course.
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