Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:52 pm

vinnyob22 wrote:Here is my recording of #23...
Beautiful, Vinny, very well played, one more delightful little piece, congratulations :D.

The table of posted records is now:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 08Mar17.png
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1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spruce, RW B&S, Tokio, Japan
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51 mm, Cedar, laminated RW B&S, Nagoya, Japan
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52 mm, Canadian Cedar, Madagascar RW B&S, Banyoles, Spain

Henny
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:27 pm

i hope you can enjoy 1 minute of Sor nr 11
Sor Op.60_11.wma
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Henny
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:04 pm

Hello Vinny, you played it wonderful, the music comes to life, my compliments.
avoid friction noises but easier said then done,

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Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:46 pm

Henny wrote:i hope you can enjoy 1 minute of Sor nr 11Sor Op.60_11.wma
Just heard your rendition of the #10, Henny. A nice piece and quite well played. Looking at the score doesn't look difficult, but having heard you play it I got a bit scared :).

I'm now preparing a new rendition of the #6 and ploughing along with the #7. Meanwhile, started the #8 and I'm playing it already at 1/4 = 140 bpm. My aim is to reach 145. The #9 is quite similar to the #8. And I still have to produce a new recording of the #5, as in my first rendition, the V1, there are some wrong notes...

The table of posted records is now the following:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 11Mar17.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spruce, RW B&S, Tokio, Japan
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51 mm, Cedar, laminated RW B&S, Nagoya, Japan
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52 mm, Canadian Cedar, Madagascar RW B&S, Banyoles, Spain

vinnyob22
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:57 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by vinnyob22 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:23 pm

Henny wrote:i hope you can enjoy 1 minute of Sor nr 11Sor Op.60_11.wma
Hello Henny. Beautiful playing on #11. Very clean and nice steady tempo.

vinnyob22
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:57 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by vinnyob22 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:37 pm

Henny wrote:Hello Vinny, you played it wonderful, the music comes to life, my compliments.
avoid friction noises but easier said then done,
Thanks for your comment. I never really noticed the friction noises before I started recording. I'm sure they were there though. Recording really helps you hear your playing from a whole different perspective. They are something that will be tough to eliminate and will require some work.

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Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:31 pm

Here is my recording of Sor Opus 60 #05. I apologize for falling behind. Aside from losing my job of more than 10 years, I had a lot of work to do on this piece. I have a new job and am happily working again. I spent a lot of time on this piece, trying to get a more legato line. I am grateful to Henny for his previous comments. The melody line is still not completely smooth, and I am having some problems playing consecutive notes on the same string. I suspect that problem is micro-coordination between the left and right hands. The amount of time I spent on this piece was worth it. I have greatly improved in the area of always playing exactly the same fingering, in both the left and right hand. This helps with developing accuracy. I have moved my right hand slightly forward (elbow closer to the top edge of the guitar) to get more control over tirando strokes. I am trying to improve the tone, but have not made a great deal of progress. You will notice that the bass note on the first beat is occasionally shaky. This is something new. I will have to watch that.I will try to catch up to the group. And also, to do my share of listening to your playing. But my first goal was to get past this hurdle. I need some work on arpeggio exercises. I never understood the need for them. Now it is clear to me. Your comments are extremely valuable. Please keep them coming.
Sor_Op60_No5.wma
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Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:34 pm

Henny wrote:i hope you can enjoy 1 minute of Sor nr 11Sor Op.60_11.wma
Wow!! Gorgeous. Fantastic. Very musical.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:This time I'm posting a rendition of the next piece, the #6 (Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #6 (V1).wma) for you all to listen to and comment.
Jorge, good separation of voices, and your understanding of the music is the same as mine. In the first section, the rhythm is lost, and in my opinion, the changes you made do not work. Otherwise, very good.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:02 pm

vinnyob22 wrote:Here is my recording of #23.
Beautiful. Out of my range to comment on.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:36 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:Here is my recording of Sor Opus 60 #05. I apologize for falling behind. Aside from losing my job of more than 10 years, I had a lot of work to do on this piece. I have a new job and am happily working again. I spent a lot of time on this piece, trying to get a more legato line. I am grateful to Henny for his previous comments. The melody line is still not completely smooth, and I am having some problems playing consecutive notes on the same string. I suspect that problem is micro-coordination between the left and right hands. The amount of time I spent on this piece was worth it. I have greatly improved in the area of always playing exactly the same fingering, in both the left and right hand. This helps with developing accuracy. I have moved my right hand slightly forward (elbow closer to the top edge of the guitar) to get more control over tirando strokes. I am trying to improve the tone, but have not made a great deal of progress. You will notice that the bass note on the first beat is occasionally shaky. This is something new. I will have to watch that.I will try to catch up to the group. And also, to do my share of listening to your playing. But my first goal was to get past this hurdle. I need some work on arpeggio exercises. I never understood the need for them. Now it is clear to me. Your comments are extremely valuable. Please keep them coming.
Sor_Op60_No5.wma
I'm so glad you you got back your professional life. It surely must have been quite a worrisome period for you. But it's all over now and you can now dedicate yourself more to the guitar :).

I enjoyed listening to your rendition of the #5, it's really a beautiful piece. The notes are clear and the tone is good. There is, however, a small mistake measure 19, the entry bass note is an A and I believe you played an E, please check. In my first rendition of this piece I had lots of wrong notes (detected by my good friend Monique from Delft), still within the harmony but different from what is in the score. I'm preparing a new version and I hope I'll be able to post it next week.

The table of posted pieces is now the following:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 12Mar17.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spruce, RW B&S, Tokio, Japan
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51 mm, Cedar, laminated RW B&S, Nagoya, Japan
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52 mm, Canadian Cedar, Madagascar RW B&S, Banyoles, Spain

Henny
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:59 pm

Yisrael,
good to hear you found a new job. Congratulations !!
it is a pleasure to hear you could improved your playing so quickly in your absence from Delcamp.
we all are happy you are back, we all value your contributions
you play clean, good tone, flowing musical lines, great improvement, you are back on track.
the improvements we need to make never ends but our musical journey is a beautiful one.

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Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:33 pm

The first section of my first rendition of Sor's Opus 60 #6 was not within the rhythm specified by the score (and I was served an unanimous and well deserved criticism by all of you, my good friends :)). Please see below my second version. All your comments are welcome, naturally.

Concerning this particular piece, I would like to call your attention to a small detail that hs been disregarded so far. It concerns the ascending slur in measure 31. It is done in the first string going from an F in the first fret to an open string E. The problem here is that the open high E coincides with a plucked E in the fourth string, a strong, high volume bass. As a consequence, if you do a common slur - just lifting the indicator finger in the LH from the 1st fret - the resulting note is simply not heard. According to Mr. Bart, the guitar teacher of my good friend Monique (I think he also lives in Delft, or nearby) "...it's difficult to play, that's a High-School method, playing one note with your left hand together with one note with your right hand". From what I understood, you don't simply lift the finger, you have to pluck the string with your LH indicator finger (no RH plucking) at the same time you produce the E bass. If you care to notice, I did try to do it, though I'm not sure if I fully succeeded. Please, let me know if you can hear the open E or not.
Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #6 (V2).wma
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spruce, RW B&S, Tokio, Japan
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51 mm, Cedar, laminated RW B&S, Nagoya, Japan
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52 mm, Canadian Cedar, Madagascar RW B&S, Banyoles, Spain

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:24 pm

While studying Sor's Opus 60 #7 piece, I started the #8 as well. It turned out that, in my view, this is the simplest of them all, so far, so it just took me a day to memorize it and a few more days to build up the speed (I'm playing it at around 1/4 = 155 bpm) without messing the faster notes in measure 13. So, please see below my rendition of this #8 (Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #8.wma) for you all to listen to and comment. As usual, the record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects directly to the iPhone. The guitar used in the record was my Hermanos Camps Master with Konobloch Actives Carbon CX, High Tension strings . The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma file below. So, my list is now as follows (new or updated comments in green):
  1. Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 1. Learning period: 03Dec16 - 15Dec16.
    Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #1 (V3).wma
    Opus 60 #1 (V3).mp3
  2. Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 2. Learning Period: 16Dec16 - 27Dec16.
    Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #2 (V1).wma
    Opus 60 #2 (V1).mp3
  3. Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 3. Learning Period: 28Dec16 - 13Jan17.
    Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #3 (V1).wma
    Opus 60 #3 (V1).mp3
  4. Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 4. Learning Period: 14Jan17 - 25Jan17.
    Fernando Sor - Opus 60 #4 (V4 apoyando, quarter = 65 bpm).wma
  5. Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 5. Learning period: 20Nov16 - 09Jan17.
    Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #5 (V1).wma
  6. Sor's Opus 60 Nº 6. Learning period: 16Nov16 - 07Mar17.
    Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #6 (V2).wma
  7. Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 7. Learning period: 08Mar17 - .... Comment: Still studying it.. :(.
  8. Sor's Opus 60, Nº 8. Learning period: 08Mar17 - 13Mar17.Comment: The simplest of them all up to now... :D.
    Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #8.wma
So, now, the table of posted studies is the following
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 13Mar17.png
My next self-assignment is, still,to learn the #7 study and post a sound file once I find it ready.
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Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spruce, RW B&S, Tokio, Japan
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51 mm, Cedar, laminated RW B&S, Nagoya, Japan
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52 mm, Canadian Cedar, Madagascar RW B&S, Banyoles, Spain

User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:53 am

Henny wrote:Yisrael,
it is a pleasure to hear you could improved your playing so quickly in your absence from Delcamp.
<snip> great improvement, you are back on track.
the improvements we need to make never ends but our musical journey is a beautiful one.
Henny, thanks for your kind comments. It is good to get back into the routine of practicing. My new job leaves less time for practice than my old one. I will try somehow to keep up.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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