Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed May 10, 2017 10:03 am

Lawler wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 11:55 pm
You're welcome.
Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 10:35 pm
...pedal point?
You may have looked it up by now but a pedal point is a composition technique that uses a repeating pitch in the bass line while the harmony above it is changing. In some instances it can create a mysterious and very expressive effect. In some instances it's a way for the composer to hit us over the head, so to speak, with the importance of a certain functional point in the harmony.
Thank you, Lawler, I did not know the meaning of pedal point and I had not looked it up because I was not aware that it was a specific composition technique, I thought it was an expression of yourself :oops:. But I understand it now and I'll look for references of it. You see it applied throughout the second section of the #11, the repeated bass tone being the D, no? And I imagine you can have a similar situation whereby you keep repeating a treble tone and changing the harmony below, no? The treble tone would it still be called pedal point?
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed May 10, 2017 11:06 pm

As rightly pointed out by Lawler, my rendition of Sor's Opus 60 #11 posted on May 8th had a wrong note in measure 16 and the harmonic in this same measure also deserved some improvement. So, I'm posting a second rendition - (V2) - of this little piece for you all to listen and comment. As usual, the record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects directly to the iPhone. The guitar used was my Hermanos Camps Master with Konobloch Actives Carbon CX, High Tension strings (almost four months in the guitar). The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma file below.

Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 11 (V2)
Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #11 (V2).wma
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Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

Henny
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Wed May 17, 2017 1:50 pm

hi Jorge,
i listened to your op60 nr 11 v2, well played, good tempo.
you can be happy with your playing.
There is always something to work on, this makes it so nice to play even the pieces from the beginning.
i enjoy taking previous pieces again.
a real joy to participate here..althoug with ups and downs as we all know too well.
have a great day

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed May 17, 2017 2:47 pm

Thanks, Henny, for your encouraging words. Yes, I feel I'm improving bit by bit. Like you, one of the things I do, every day, is to play all of Sor's Opus 60 pieces learned so far. This practice prevents me from forgetting them. Another thing I'm doing, as a sort of warm up exercise, is to play one page a day of Hubert Hapel's "The Bible of Classical Guitar Technique". I'm now in the Arpegios section. Quite interesting.
A great day to you as well :).
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

Henny
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Thu May 18, 2017 3:05 pm

Jorge, good to keep the older pieces up to date. For me the pleisure of playing music is not in
the difficulty but in the execution,the phrasing, the dynamics. i enjoy to play with speed and phrasing etc..to discover what i like. thanks and till later. :)

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sat May 27, 2017 7:39 pm

I'm posting Sor's Opus 60 #12 for you all to listen to and comment. As usual, the record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects directly to the iPhone. The guitar used was my Hermanos Camps Master with Konobloch Actives Carbon CX, High Tension strings (4,5 months old already, but still going ok, I think). The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma file below. My impressions of this piece are, as usual, in green:

Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 12. Learning period: 09May17 - 27May17 Comment: Except for the counterpoint in measures 19-21 - the most difficult part to bring up to speed (around 1/4 = 65 bpm) - this composition is not difficult to play. Nevertheless, it took me three weeks to have it ready to post, one week more than I thought I would need.
Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #12 (V1).wma

So, now, the table of posted studies is the following:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 27May17.png
My next self-assignment is to post a sound file of the #13 study.
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Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

Henny
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Mon May 29, 2017 11:24 am

hi Jorge,

thanks for uploading nr 12. well done.
i liked most of it but you are better off when i give some critical feedback
when you take the score in front of you, then listen critically to how you play and mark everything you do not like into the score, i am sure you find even more to improve then me.
the second part, the last 2 phrases are less convincingly played due to their technical difficulty.
it need a little more work to give the same quality as the 1e part.
when you are happy with the result play the dynamics for the repeats somewhat different in attack (f.e ponticello).
cheers
joannes

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon May 29, 2017 2:35 pm

Henny wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 11:24 am
hi Jorge,

thanks for uploading nr 12. well done.
i liked most of it but you are better off when i give some critical feedback
when you take the score in front of you, then listen critically to how you play and mark everything you do not like into the score, i am sure you find even more to improve then me.
the second part, the last 2 phrases are less convincingly played due to their technical difficulty.
it need a little more work to give the same quality as the 1e part.
when you are happy with the result play the dynamics for the repeats somewhat different in attack (f.e ponticello).
cheers
joannes
Thanks for your comments, Joannes, I very much appreciate them. When you refer to "the last 2 phrases are less convincingly played due to their technical difficulty", would you please indicate which measures you refer to? Perhaps from measure 13 onwards?

Also, I searched the Internet and learned the meaning of ponticello (attacking the strings near the bridge), natural (over the mouth of the guitar) and tasto (a bit upwards in the fretboard). Different sounds are obtained - metallic, natural and mellow - and these can be used in the repeats to obtain a different sound. This and different strengths while attacking the strings is what you call dynamics, no? I'll try it.

Oner last remark. When checking again the score, I noticed that I'm missing in my play the last D in measure 12. What a shame :oops:! I really need to prepare another record of the #12.
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:50 am

Dear Friends:

It's a new month and it's also time to publish some statistical data concerning our participation in this thread for the last one, May 2017.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread - May_2017.png

Those in Amber are Forum Members who posted for the first time in this Topic in May. Those with zero posts, posted sometime in the past but not in May. Nevertheless, I've been keeping their names in the graph so we all know whom ever was interested in this Topic.

The following graphic present the daily ramp up of posts and views for the last month:

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread, posts and views - May_2017.png

Finally, the next graph depicts the total number of monthly posts and views since this Topic was initiated in December 2016.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread - Montlhy Posts & Views_Dec16-May17.png

It looks like the participation in this Topic has stabilized.

I thank you all, again, for your support to this Project.

Jorge
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Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

Henny
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Henny » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:44 am

hi Jorge,

yes from measure 13 onwards.
then the transition from measure 16 to 17 and 20 to 21
in general the piece needs more legato (also for the beginning), when you listen carefully notes needs to be more connected but this is a lifetime exercise, with awareness you will improve quickly.

take for example Sor op 60 study 1, play only the first 2 bars. now keep the 1e note ..wait ..then play the b-g and c note quickly with the accent on the c....you will feel the connection of the 2 bars when you go away from the metronome and feel the music.

let me know if this has helped you.

joannes

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:57 pm

Hi Henny:

Yes, I think I understand what you mean, thank you. My "problem" is that before this Project my play was just "feeling" and almost no obedience to the rhythm and time indications in the score. With this Project I started using the metronome in a systematic way but I still have to establish a proper balance between strict adherence to rhythm and timing, and at the same time provide some fluency and expression to my play.

Concerning my rendition of the #12, I'll see if I can improve the connection between notes. The part I find most difficult is the transition between measures 20 and 21. Strictly speaking, I do make a small pause between the 3rd and 4th two-notes of measure 20... and may be I shouldn't. But I've seen it being played like that and it makes things a little bit more easy. I'll see what I can do in my next recording - my daughter and grandchildren return today to England but, nevertheless, I won't have much time to practice because this whole week I'll have some civil construction works going on at my place.

As for the #1, I do play it today in a more fluent way than before. May be I'll post a new recording of it paying attention to your comments. Many thanks again,

Jorge
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:02 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:39 pm
I'm posting Sor's Opus 60 #12 for you all to listen to and comment.
Hi, Jorge.
I have been prevented from recording and participating in the forum due to the enormous pressure of my new job. I am now getting it under control.
My impression is that you have made enormous advances since you started participating in this forum. First, fundamental rhythm is steady and clearly articulated (I am not concerned about slight delays here and there due to technical difficulties; that will go away with a little more practice). You also outline the melody very clearly.
As for dynamics, there is a very good description of what it is and how to do it in Mario Amayo's book on interpretation. In fact, because you suddenly outline the melody so clearly, I suspect that you have been reading Amayo. Whatever the cause, your reading of the music is now much more solid and convincing. Keep up the good work.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:21 am

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:02 am
Hi, Jorge.
I have been prevented from recording and participating in the forum due to the enormous pressure of my new job. I am now getting it under control.
My impression is that you have made enormous advances since you started participating in this forum. First, fundamental rhythm is steady and clearly articulated (I am not concerned about slight delays here and there due to technical difficulties; that will go away with a little more practice). You also outline the melody very clearly.
As for dynamics, there is a very good description of what it is and how to do it in Mario Amayo's book on interpretation. In fact, because you suddenly outline the melody so clearly, I suspect that you have been reading Amayo. Whatever the cause, your reading of the music is now much more solid and convincing. Keep up the good work.
Hi, Yisrael, I'm so glad you are back and thank you for your kind words. Yes, I also feel I've improved a lot in both reading and playing since this project started. And all your comments were of great help to me.

I'm now with the #13, but I still have to record again the #12, to improve the fluency of the play and also - shame on me! :oops: - to include the D at the end of measure 12. And how is your #9? You will be posting it soon, no? I hope so. Again, well come back :).
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:10 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:21 am
I'm now with the #13, but I still have to record again the #12, to improve the fluency of the play and also - shame on me! :oops: - to include the D at the end of measure 12. And how is your #9? You will be posting it soon, no? I hope so. Again, well come back :).
Thank you for your kind words. I have been working a lot on tone and bringing out the melody in Study 9. Today, I sat down to record, but I see that I am not ready to make a clean recording. But I hope to in the course of next week.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:13 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:21 am
<snip>
…I'm now with the #13, but I still have to record again the #12, to improve the fluency of the play and also - shame on me! :oops: - to include the D at the end of measure 12. And how is your #9? You will be posting it soon, no? I hope so. Again, well come back :).
Thank you for your kind words. I have been working a lot on tone and bringing out the melody in Study 9. I spent a long time developing security in the right-hand technique. Today, I sat down to record, but I see that I am not ready to make a clean recording. But I hope to in the course of next week.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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