Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:09 pm

Thank you for the reply Jorge! I have to respectfully disagree with you about not going back to the beginning though. It is quite a bit of work and there are a lot of posts but there is excellent feedback and really useful material for new students and anyone interested in playing these pieces. Especially the advice by Rob MacKillop (so far as of Page 14). I also really enjoyed listening to your progress of No 1. You had some really remarkable progress.

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:41 am

Chariot0 wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:09 pm
Thank you for the reply Jorge! I have to respectfully disagree with you about not going back to the beginning though. It is quite a bit of work and there are a lot of posts but there is excellent feedback and really useful material for new students and anyone interested in playing these pieces. Especially the advice by Rob MacKillop (so far as of Page 14). I also really enjoyed listening to your progress of No 1. You had some really remarkable progress.
Thanks, Roger :D. Yes, it took me some time to improve the #1 (and others, as well). This Project has been quite helpful for me. Among other things (I'm better at sight reading, now) it forced me to start using the metronome to steady my rhythm. Concerning the use of the metronome and how it can really help, you have to read the post of 2handband dated 12-Dec-2016 (16:57h) on page 7 of this thread.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm

Question - Can I post a link to my recording on Soundcloud or is the preference to have it uploaded as a wma?

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:59 pm

Yes, Roger, you can post a link in this thread to any record you may have made of any of the pieces of Sor's Opus 60, audio only or video, be it in Soundcloud, YouTube, Dropbox, etc. The important is that one can hear and comment it :). However, if you upload a record in .wma, be sure to post a link to an .mp3 file as well, as forum members with Macintosh computers cannot reproduce .wma records directly, they would need to install plugins and/or other appropriate software.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:14 pm

Here is my first submission. Op 60 Nr 1.

https://soundcloud.com/roger-ramirez-24/sor-op-60-nr-1

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:52 pm

Chariot0 wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:14 pm
Here is my first submission. Op 60 Nr 1.

https://soundcloud.com/roger-ramirez-24/sor-op-60-nr-1
Very well, Roger, good tone, good tempo, good recording :). Just noticed a small hesitation in the repetition of measure 10, but this is nothing. You should now proceed to #2, there is a long road ahead... :D.

With your submission, the table of posted records becomes now the following:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 08Dec17.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

powderedtoastman
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by powderedtoastman » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:49 am

Nicely played Roger! I assume that's on your new guitar? It sounds really clean and warm, I like it.
And welcome to the Op. 60 gang here!

Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:50 pm

For people wondering, I know PowderedToastMan. We met last summer at a guitar workshop. I was pleasantly surprised to see his videos posted here. It is indeed my new guitar, a Ramirez 4NE that I’m completely in love with. I used a Zoom H1 Handy Recoder to record my playing.

Also I’m proud to announce that I’m finally caught up. I’ve listened to all the recordings and I have to say again, this group is awesome. You guys have really improved over the year. Thanks again to Jorge for keeping this thread going.

I’ve been working on Nr 2 and have to post it tomorrow, if not within the next few days.

Roger

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:20 am

Chariot0 wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:14 pm
Here is my first submission. Op 60 Nr 1.
W@elcome to this thread, Chariot0. Thank you for sharing your first recording for this thread. I enjoyed your tone, tempo, and especially articulation. You brought out the melody nicely especially in the second part. And, of course, I noticed a minor insecurity on the repetition of measure 10. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to your posting of Opus 60 No. 2. I know that Jorge Oliveira said essentially the same thing, but I did not even look at his comments until I had already formulated mine. And we look for slightly different things. Jorge is strict about playing wrong notes or inaccurate timing (at least, with my playing); I tend to listen to the articulation (one of your strong points) and overall affect. By the way, Jorge and Henny's comments have been big factors in improving my playing. Keep up the good work.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:24 am

mainterm wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:52 pm
Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:40 pm
As for fingering in measures 23 and 24, I use modern fingering:
1/8.G-B-E (pmi) 1/16E (a) 1/4GB (ia) 1/4F#AD# (pia) | 1/2 EGB (pia) 1/4 E (p).
Try adjusting the RH pattern so that you don't have to repeat with "a" from the 1/16th E to G quarter.

Interestingly Aguago - who is a real big fan of this sort of dotted rhythms, goes out of his way at times to indicate that the 32nd note after a dotted 16th (for example) should be played with 'i'.

Try that - play the 16th with 'i' instead of 'a'.
Thanks, mainterm, for the tip. I wrote it in my copy of the score. I will try that. I understand the benefit.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:16 pm

Jorge I don't think I said thank you for your review of my first submission. Thank you! I completely agree with you about that hesitation. I have to admit I heard it before I uploaded it but I had already done several takes and I was becoming impatient. And as you said... long road ahead. :)

PowerderedToastMan, I don't think I thanked you for the review either. Thank you.

Yisrael, thank you for the review. I don't mind repetitive reviews and I appreciate everyones time in pointing out whatever they see.

Here is my playing of Nr 2. I added a couple of notes at the end. Every time I finish the piece without them I hear them in my head so I decided to just record them. I hope no one minds too much. haha.

https://soundcloud.com/roger-ramirez-24/sor-op-60-nr-2

A couple of notes of what I tried in this piece and I think you'll be able to hear it. Please let me know if you like the effect or not. In measure 3-4 and also 11-12 I played them ponticello since they are sort of echoes of the previous 2 measures. In measure 8 I tried to put a little rubato (slowing down) going into the C# and then picking the speed back up in the 8th note run. I think the speed change is very subtle if noticeable at all. Perhaps I should push it a bit more.

Onward to #3!

powderedtoastman
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by powderedtoastman » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:41 pm

Cleanly done, Roger!

I have two ideas to make it more fun and interesting, too. Since it's in 3/4 time, it would be good to set the flow such that beat 1 is the strong beat, beat 2 is the weak beat, and beat 3 is kind of expanding to lead up to the strong beat... so stronger than beat 2 but less strong than the coming beat 1 of the next measure. I also heard a G on beat 3 about 9 measures before the end that was too strong leading up to the E in the next measure. You should be kind of falling from the D to the G and then the E comes in strong on the next beat 1. That's just to my ear/taste though, perhaps somebody can correct me if I'm wrong or word it better.

To make it even more fancy, you can superimpose that strong/weak idea over multiple measures to give that sort of flow to the overall phrases. Listening back to my own demo of this piece, I hear myself doing the emphasis on 1 and 3, but not so much the longer phrasing so that's something for me to look at. It might be easier to pull off if we assign a strength level to each measure and look at that as we go along.

The other thing we could do (which I also didn't really do myself last time around): Even though it's a single line of notes, there could be multiple "voices" doing a call and response. Find a way to make those distinct from each other, and you've got quite an interesting piece of music!
Also the call and response thing is definitely something I see in numbers 3 and 4 so I'd say try it on those rather than re-doing number2!

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:55 pm

And...... new participant coming onto the field. In for a penny, in for a pound, right?


Youtube


To quote Peter Pan "And away we goooooo......"
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:00 am

Here's my take on the second Lesson. With an exquisite view of my right elbow.


Youtube


Enough for now, more coming next weekend.
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

powderedtoastman
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by powderedtoastman » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:28 am

Nice to have you in the club, David!
I like that guitar, it looks and sounds great. And I approve of the embellishments you added in. There are those who believe that improvised preludes and interludes were common practice for the period, so I don't think Sor would have likely discouraged that sort of deviation from the score, especially for a study piece like this.

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