Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:48 pm

ElRay wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:59 am

I remember, in the late 80's, the Peabody Conservatory of Music in Baltimore was going through a bit of "controversy". The standard at that time was that in any piece that included an improvised section, auditioning students must learn and play exactly, one of the approved historical improvisations. The scandalous bit was that there were faculty that actually wanted to hear prospective students actually improvise.
Well that's just Crazy Talk. I mean, CLASSICAL music students, improvising???? Great Heavens, man! Improvisation is for Jazz players. Or for illiterate itinerant musicians who haven't had the Proper Schooling to Properly Play a Proper Composition <insert dismissive haughty sniff and optional head toss here>. Seriously, what would Bach or Mozart or Beethoven or Paganini think?????
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:58 pm

I'm now posting Sor's Opus 60 #18 for you all to listen to and comment. As usual, the record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects directly to the iPhone. The guitar used was my Hermanos Camps Master with Hannabach 815HT Silver Special Blue, High Tension strings (1 month, 17 days old :D). The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma file below. My impressions of this piece are, as usual, in green:

Sor’s Opus 60, Nº 18. Learning period: 11Nov17 - 22Dec17 Comment: The difficulty in this piece lies in measures 23 and 24 which forces you to quite unusual LH positions. I'll keep practising it daily and I hope my fingers will "learn" these positions.
Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #18.wma
Sor, Fernando - Opus 60 #18.mp3

So, now, the table of posted studies is the following:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 22Dec17.png

My next self-assignment is to post a sound file of the #19 study and, as recommended by Stephen Kenyon, to post as well a rendition of the #16 with a clear passage on the fast notes. Not easy... :( .
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1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

mainterm
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by mainterm » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:36 pm

Nice work Jorge.

My only comment is to better connect the g-f melody in the first half of measure 21.

m24. is awkward.

Chariot0
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Chariot0 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:07 pm

Great Jorge! I can't really comment much since I haven't gotten there yet. Keep it up!

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:38 am

mainterm wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:36 pm
Nice work Jorge.

My only comment is to better connect the g-f melody in the first half of measure 21.

m24. is awkward.
Thank you for your encouragement. mainterm. I'll look again at what I did on measure 21 and improve it. Indeed, my intention is to keep on practising this #18 daily and post a second rendition of it with a more controlled measure 24 as well :).
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:00 am

Chariot0 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:07 pm
Great Jorge! I can't really comment much since I haven't gotten there yet. Keep it up!
Thanks for listening, Roger. The #18 is indeed a nice piece, not that difficult, though it has some awkward LH positioning. But that was the purpose of Sor, to make you able to move from position to position in a fluid manner. The RH is trivial, with the same movements most of the time. You will enjoy playing it, I'm sure.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:31 am

Here's the next one in line, Lesson #3:


Youtube



This is recorded on my Kenny Hill "Madrid", 2002.
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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:13 am

After Number 3, follows Number 4:


Youtube


As with Number 3, this is played on a Kenny Hill "Madrid" instrument, 2002, patterned after a 1967 Ramirez 1a.

This one being in C minor, I found the open 3rd string G over-ring to be very annoying. So, to mitigate that, I chose to finger it mostly in higher positions.
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:11 pm

David Norton wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:31 am
Here's the next one in line, Lesson #3:
...

This is recorded on my Kenny Hill "Madrid", 2002.
Well done, David. Good tone, good tempo and quite steady :D. And, I must say, your guitar sounds awesome :).
David Norton wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:13 am
After Number 3, follows Number 4:
...

As with Number 3, this is played on a Kenny Hill "Madrid" instrument, 2002, patterned after a 1967 Ramirez 1a.

This one being in C minor, I found the open 3rd string G over-ring to be very annoying. So, to mitigate that, I chose to finger it mostly in higher positions.
Nicely played, David, congratulations. And the piece played in higher positions sounds quite interesting indeed :), I must try it. To the #5, now, which is one of the most beautiful and popular pieces in Sor's Opus 60 series.

With these two renditions of your's, David, the table of posted records becomes:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 29Dec17.png
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1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:46 pm

A favor, please.

This is what is written at the top of Sor's Op. 60 (facsimile on Delcamp). Could someone please translate it? Something about the first six lessons....?
Sor 60 commentary.jpg
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David Norton
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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:50 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:11 pm

Well done, David. Good tone, good tempo and quite steady :D. And, I must say, your guitar sounds awesome :).
Thank you, Jorge. The Hill Madrid is a very nice and rather recently acquired instrument. I had the chance to compare it directly to 3 genuine Ramirezes, and it held its head high. One of the Ramirezes was exceptionally better than the Madrid (as it should be: its original owner was Chris Parkening!), but the other two? Yes, better, but to my ears not US$7000 better!
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:29 pm

David Norton wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:46 pm
A favor, please.

This is what is written at the top of Sor's Op. 60 (facsimile on Delcamp). Could someone please translate it? Something about the first six lessons....?

Sor 60 commentary.jpg
Hi David:

The French text you mention appears also in English, side-by-side, in the Chanterelle edition of "Fernando Sor - The Complete Studies for Guitar". It is not a word-by-word translation but the meaning is the same. It goes like this:

The first six lessons serve only as exercises for finding where each note is to be produced. Nevertheless, by following the indicated fingering and being careful not to lift any finger until it is needed elsewhere, or until the string it is on must be played at a lower fret or as an open string, the student will automatically acquire the habit of positioning the left hand correctly.
Lessons with no tempo indication should be studied slowly, increasing speed progressively as self-confidence is gained.


Best regards,

Jorge
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:40 pm

Thank you again, Jorge.

So this confirms my suspicion that the initial pieces of Op. 60 (I had thought the first four, Sor indicates the first six) are not intended as Grand Musical Works. They "serve only as exercises for finding each note".... So I will stop feeling self-conscious that my recordings are not quite on a par with how someone like Marcin Dylla or Jorge Caballero might interpret them. :lol:

#5 is next; I admit I am having trouble getting into this one thus far. The first two sections seem natural enough, but for the moment the A major parts are a mystery as to find the music inside them. But to follow Sor's words, if they are "only exercises", maybe I shouldn't spend a huge amount of time digging for Universal Truth here? We shall see in a week or so, maybe less.
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hgamboa
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by hgamboa » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:12 pm

Sor Opus 60, no 4

The last months were more busy that I was expecting, and the time to practice and record a decent execution of my progression on Opus 60, disappeared.

But today I was able to finally get to a recording without major errors of number 4 and I wanted to share with the community.

A good year to everyone and thanks to all and particularly to Jorge for maintaining this thread alive!
Opus60nr4.wma
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Hugo Gamboa
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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:56 pm

Nice job of that, Hugo. I like the tempo and the smoothness. Very well done!
David Norton
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