Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:31 pm

David Norton wrote:You should hear -- or maybe better to NOT hear? -- my version of Sanz' "Canarios" without the slurs!
David - you may be pleased to know that Sanz wrote Canarios without slurs except in just four related instances where they are used as a special effect. I play it on the baroque guitar - also Sanz sans slurs (except for those instances).

The added slurs spoil the piece - placed, as they are, for mechanical rather than musical reasons.

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:11 pm

David Norton wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Hello Jorge,
Thank you for your attentive remarks. In reply:
...
(3) ...You should hear -- or maybe better to NOT hear? -- my version of Sanz' "Canarios" without the slurs!
...

DN
Yes, David, I would like to hear your rendition of (Gaspar?) Sanz' "Canarios". I searched the You Tube but could not find it. Do you have a link you could provide me? Many thanks :).
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:11 pm

Yes, David, I would like to hear your rendition of (Gaspar?) Sanz' "Canarios". I searched the You Tube but could not find it. Do you have a link you could provide me? Many thanks :).
There is virtually zero chance of me ever being foolish enough to post a YT video of me "playing" that piece. The only correct description of that debacle would be "Norton played Sanz. Sanz lost, badly."
David Norton
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:40 pm

David Norton wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 pm

There is virtually zero chance of me ever being foolish enough to post a YT video of me "playing" that piece. The only correct description of that debacle would be "Norton played Sanz. Sanz lost, badly."
:lol: Thanks God, David, you did not post it, I saw the piece being played by others and it's quite demanding, not yet for our teeth. But, given time, we would be able to produce a reasonable rendition, I'm sure. Back to the #6, then... As for me, I'm still trying to muster the two measures of fast notes in the #16 - Stephen Kenyon gave me an assignment and is waiting... Meanwhile, I've started the #19. Doesn't look that difficult.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:02 pm

Hi everybody:

I'm now digging deep on the #19 and I wonder how can we divided into phrases. The first section starts in G Major (tonic) and my first attempt in section 1 is as follows:
  1. Phrase 1: mm.1-4. V (tonic) to (? sounds like a variant of G Major but I don't know how to name it)
  2. Phrase 2: mm.5-8. V (subdominant) to (7th dominant - the last three notes?)
  3. Phrase 3: the same as phrase 1
  4. Phrase 4: mm.5 V (subdominant) followed by mm.9-11. (don't know how to name the first accord) to V tonic
Those of you who know how to separate a piece into phrases must be, for sure, horrified with my "partition" :oops: . I beg your indulgence, then, but with your help and corrections one should be able to have it done in a couple of days. Thank you all in advance :).
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:47 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:02 pm
Hi everybody:

I'm now digging deep on the #19 and I wonder how can we divided into phrases. The first section starts in G Major (tonic) and my first attempt in section 1 is as follows:
  1. Phrase 1: mm.1-4. V (tonic) to (? sounds like a variant of G Major but I don't know how to name it)
  2. Phrase 2: mm.5-8. V (subdominant) to (7th dominant - the last three notes?)
  3. Phrase 3: the same as phrase 1
  4. Phrase 4: mm.5 V (subdominant) followed by mm.9-11. (don't know how to name the first accord) to V tonic
Those of you who know how to separate a piece into phrases must be, for sure, horrified with my "partition" :oops: . I beg your indulgence, then, but with your help and corrections one should be able to have it done in a couple of days. Thank you all in advance :).
Bar 4 is G major with a B in the bass - first inversion! - the D # is chromatic ...
Bar 8 again has a little chromatic moment the C#, leave that out and its just D7. Bar 6 is interesting, there's a pedal G upto there and the bar starts with a diminished, again its chromatically ornamenting the G first inversion on either side.
2nd time bar reprises bar 6, almost (chromatic moment the D#), this time the G first inversion fulfills its destiny for the B to lead up to the C so then IV - V7 - I.
In the second section look out for the D pedal and some chromatic moments familiar in note-name from the first bit.
Nothing horrifying there, 4 bar phrases correctly found :)
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)

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David Norton
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by David Norton » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:07 pm

Here's the next one, #6. I learned quite a bit from working this one up, putting forth a lot of effort in articulating all the rests. I'm not entirely sure that the game was worth the candle, however I very much believe Sor meant this one at least in part as a Lesson in "playing rests".



Youtube



[NOTE: There's a somewhat muffled note on the repeat of the B section. The rest of the "take" was good enough that I went with it anyway. My performance models have always been the players of the 1950s/60s/70s, and those old LPs have many examples of "not-quite-there" notes now and again. ]


TECH DATA: Played on my 1983 Greg Brandt guitar, European spruce and East Indian rosewood. This is #27 of Brandt's output, and not at all representative of the masterpiece guitars that he builds now. But it's the first guitar I ever commissioned, and I've played this one for 34 years. I feel that it has a better balanced timbre for Sor than does the powerful but rather bass-heavy Kenny Hill "Madrid" instrument which I've used on other recordings in this series. Video done on my Flip camcorder; it's no great shakes but it gets the job done.

Next is Number 7, apparently the first of the "real" pieces in Op. 60, and not another exercise for finding notes (and rests!)
David Norton
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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:00 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:47 pm
Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:02 pm
Hi everybody:

I'm now digging deep on the #19 and I wonder how can we divided into phrases. The first section starts in G Major (tonic) and my first attempt in section 1 is as follows:
  1. Phrase 1: mm.1-4. V (tonic) to (? sounds like a variant of G Major but I don't know how to name it)
  2. Phrase 2: mm.5-8. V (sub-dominant) to (7th dominant - the last three notes?)
  3. Phrase 3: the same as phrase 1
  4. Phrase 4: mm.5 V (sub-dominant) followed by mm.9-11. (don't know how to name the first accord) to V tonic
Those of you who know how to separate a piece into phrases must be, for sure, horrified with my "partition" :oops: . I beg your indulgence, then, but with your help and corrections one should be able to have it done in a couple of days. Thank you all in advance :).
Bar 4 is G major with a B in the bass - first inversion! - the D # is chromatic ...
Bar 8 again has a little chromatic moment the C#, leave that out and its just D7. Bar 6 is interesting, there's a pedal G up to there and the bar starts with a diminished, again its chromatically ornamenting the G first inversion on either side.
2nd time bar reprises bar 6, almost (chromatic moment the D#), this time the G first inversion fulfils its destiny for the B to lead up to the C so then IV - V7 - I.
In the second section look out for the D pedal and some chromatic moments familiar in note-name from the first bit.
Nothing horrifying there, 4 bar phrases correctly found :)
Hi Stephen:

Many thanks for your comments and help in identifying the chords in the first section of Sor's OPus 60 #19. Tough there is Nothing horrifying there, 4 bar phrases correctly found :), thank you, I'm not used at all to the terminology used to identify the chords and I realize I have messed it up completely :oops:. Allow me a second attempt, incorporating now your inputs:
  • Phrase 1: mm.1-4. I (tonic) to I (tonic) with a B in the bass - first inversion (yes, I know now what is an inversion)
  • Phrase 2: mm.5-8. IV (sub-dominant C Major) to dominant seventh (V7 or D7)
  • Phrase 3: the same as phrase 1
  • Phrase 4: mm.5. IV (sub-dominant C Major) - I (tonic) with a B in the bass - 1st inversion, followed by mm.9-11 (diminished?) to G 1st inversion – IV (sub-dominant C Major) - V7 (D7) - I (tonic)

    The second section starts with a chord that sounds like D7 but played up in the scale. This is my attempt, then, at dividing it into phrases, identifying all the chords in Phrase 5:
  • Phrase 5: mm.12-19. |V7 (D7 up in the fretboard) – I | VI (E Major or V7𝄯 ?) - V7 | I – V7 | D7𝄰 (?) - I | IV – I | V7 – I | V7 – I (with an ornament) | I – V7 |
  • Phrase 6: mm 20-27. (to be completed once phrase 5 is reviewed)
  • Phrase 7: the same as phrase 1
  • Phrase 8: the same as phrase 4
The bars are represented as |. Where I put a ? is where I cannot identify for sure the chord.

You also say, above, In the second section look out for the D pedal and some chromatic moments familiar in note-name from the first bit. Yes, there is a pedal D throughout phrases 5-6 but I don't know how to relate it to chromatic tones (I know there is a so-called chromatic scale but I still have to study it further). Your comments/corrections will be most welcome, Stephen.

Best regards,

Jorge
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:34 pm

David Norton wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:07 pm
Here's the next one, #6. I learned quite a bit from working this one up, putting forth a lot of effort in articulating all the rests. I'm not entirely sure that the game was worth the candle, however I very much believe Sor meant this one at least in part as a Lesson in "playing rests".


...


[NOTE: There's a somewhat muffled note on the repeat of the B section. The rest of the "take" was good enough that I went with it anyway. My performance models have always been the players of the 1950s/60s/70s, and those old LPs have many examples of "not-quite-there" notes now and again. ]


TECH DATA: Played on my 1983 Greg Brandt guitar, European spruce and East Indian rosewood. This is #27 of Brandt's output, and not at all representative of the masterpiece guitars that he builds now. But it's the first guitar I ever commissioned, and I've played this one for 34 years. I feel that it has a better balanced timbre for Sor than does the powerful but rather bass-heavy Kenny Hill "Madrid" instrument which I've used on other recordings in this series. Video done on my Flip camcorder; it's no great shakes but it gets the job done.

Next is Number 7, apparently the first of the "real" pieces in Op. 60, and not another exercise for finding notes (and rests!)
Very well, David, your rendition sounds good and I was surprised that it took you only four days to prepare it after you posted #5. You must be a very good sight reader. Your 1983 Greg Brandt is a nice guitar with a quite good sound that can only get better with age (I'm now experimenting with vintage Japanese guitars and they are awesome).

The #7 is next. Indeed, it took me ages before I ventured to post a rendition of it. I even went to the extreme of posting first the #8 and the #9. You will find in it, for the first time in this series, a particular ornament, the acciaccatura, in measure 10. which you find also later on the #14. A beautiful thing...

With your rendition, David, the table of posted records becomes as follows:
Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 07Jan18.png
Edited to correct minor gramaticsl midstakes...
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Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

mainterm
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by mainterm » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:28 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:00 pm
...there is a pedal D throughout phrases 5-6 but I don't know how to relate it to chromatic tones...
A pedal or ostinato such as the D in the second section of this piece creates ambiguity vis-a-vis a single "correct" harmonic analysis. You may certainly think about it, hear other interpretations, use it as another learning opportunity and I would encourage all of this.

As far as using this information as an input to musical interpretation, it has some value for this piece perhaps, but not a lot in my view. What I hear in this section is more about dissonance/consonance resolutions. Where do these notes want to go and do they go there or somewhere else? Or said another way: where do we find "leading" tones and do they lead to a sense of resolution or arrival?

Drawing our attention to these tenser moments using agogic stress, dynamics and so on is the fun part here I think. And very cleverly I think, Sor like many other skilled composers uses an ostinato to create a lingering but mild sense of anticipation/tension which sets up the return to G very nicely for the DC al Fine.

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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:06 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:00 pm
...

Hi Stephen:

Many thanks for your comments and help in identifying the chords in the first section of Sor's OPus 60 #19. Tough there is Nothing horrifying there, 4 bar phrases correctly found :), thank you, I'm not used at all to the terminology used to identify the chords and I realize I have messed it up completely :oops:. Allow me a second attempt, incorporating now your inputs:.
I'm getting confused with the bar numbers, are you double counting the repeats? Personally that causes confusion because it contradicts the numbers as printed, and I'd prefer something simply to indicate whether its the 1st or 2nd time etc ...

As mainterm described above, the pedal tone creates ambiguity - and in fact there is one in the first section much of the time, the G down the middle of the texture is an 'internal' pedal so to speak. So when we look at the second half of bar 1, how to account for the A - C chord with the G? - is it an Am7 or what? - well to be honest I don't know how they would describe it in a formal analysis class, for me, I think of it in practical terms; its following the pattern of the interval of a 10th giving the melody at the top harmonised by basses in parallel, and things like this A - (G) - C chord happen as a result of the logic of that happening. Because if it is an Am7 it doesn't much behave like one, and the point is that when pedals are around the resultant discords don't have to behave normally, its kinda the point of having them.
Btw you could argue that when I described the start of the 1st time bar as a diminished its giving a name to something that is again just what's happening against the pedal point.
In referring to the way somethings would be familiar from the first section, in the second, I was angling towards the point that while the first section is all about 10ths (= a 3rd + an octave), the second section is all about 3rds - mostly of the time anyhow. So we get some of the same harmonies e.g. - A#-C# - in bar 12 (actual) or extended plus the E in bar 20, = a diminished (A#) over the D pedal.
Re chromatic scale, well of course its just a scale with every single step filled in. As mainterm has outlined, the point is the way it creates a 'tenser moment' by intensifying a transition that would otherwise have less 'push', less imperative to change from to the other. Because the semitone relationship creates a stronger push that a tone would - its why you need a G# near the end of an A minor scale, and a G# in the chord of E (7) that leads to A minor or major as a perfect cadence. Try it with an E minor chord - not very final sounding!
So in the end I'd suggest not to worry too much about which chords are which over this D pedal, but if there are any that are really bugging you say which there are in normal bar numbers please? :merci:
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)

mainterm
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by mainterm » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:59 pm

vis-a-vis measure numbering...

The practice I'm used to seeing is to include the measure(s) of the second ending in the measure count whilst omitting the measure(s) of the first ending. I think this makes some sense - take for example a case where you've decided to omit repeats. In this case you omit first endings, making the second endings arguably the choice for the measure count.

I would wager this is how most if not all big music publishing houses handle it.

Of specific relevance to this thread however, the Chanterelle edition of Sor's OP.60 counts all of the measures regardless of repeat endings. In Op.60 this applies to #14 and #19. At first glance this appears to be the standard across the entire Chanterelle edition of Sor's studies.

Perhaps Tecla edition shows something else. The early editions don't include numbering obviously. I suggest to consider omission of first ending in count and ignore Chanterelle/other eds. that count all measures.

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:46 pm

Thank you both, Stephen and mainterm, for your comments and explanations on the analysis of the #19. I’ve learned a lot, rest assured, and I’m grateful for that. I must say that my initial intention was just to identify the phrases in the #19, with only the initial and end chord in each as mainterm did in his post of 13-Dec-17 (page 52 of this thread), mimicking the terminology used in his post. Not being familiar with this sort of exercise, I think I succeeded in identifying the limits of the four phrases of section 1 but I messed up the labeling of its chords according to the diatonic scale.

In my second attempt I identified the two other phrases in section 2 and tried as well to identify all the chords of the first phrase of section 2. In doing so I used a simbology which, I’m afraid, misled you, Stephen, in what respects the bar numbering I used. I’m sorry for that, it was not my intention. I have the Chanterelle edition and I’m strictly adhering to its numbering and, as mainterm states in his latest post, the Chanterelle edition of Sor's OP.60 counts all of the measures regardless of repeat endings (see, please, my PM to you).

Now, in spite of your assertion, mainterm, that As far as using this information as an input to musical interpretation, it has some value for this piece perhaps, but not a lot in my view. – and I surely agree with it, most of the chords have only two notes – I’ll go, nevertheless, as far as I’ll be able in this “analysis”, as I’ll learn something more in the process and, who knows, may be others in this Project will find it useful when they reach the #19.

So, in summary, the #19 is in G Major (tonic) and in it one can identify six distinct phrases, arranged in the piece like this:

Phrase 1: measures 1-4
Phrase 2: measures 5-8
Phrase 3: same as phrase 1 (1st repeat)
Phrase 4: measure 5 and measures 9-11
Phrase 5: measures 12-19
Phrase 6: measures 20-27 (segno – go back to beginning of the score)
Phrase 7: same as phrase 1 (2nd repeat)
Phrase 8: same as phrase 4 (1st repeat) and Fine

I will now proceed with the identification of the chords in each measure, bearing in mind that, in this piece, each measure (m.) contains two chords:

First Section (pedal G)
Phrase 1:
m. 1: I – II (G Major – “sounds to me like” A minor 7th)
Am7 Chord.png
m. 2: I – I (G Major first inversion with B in the bass – G Major)
m. 3: I – II (G Major – A Major)
m. 4: I – I (G Major first inversion with B in the bass – G Major in transition through D# to C Major in phrase 2, m. 5)
Phrase 2:
m. 5: IV – I (C Major – G Major first inversion with B in the bass)
m. 6: II? – I (A# diminished 7th (??) - G Major first inversion with B in the bass)
A#dim7 Chord.png
m. 7: II - I (A minor 7th – G Major)
m. 8: V – V (D7 with F# in the bass? – D 7th)
Phrase 3:
Same as phrase 1, 1st repeat
Phrase 4:
m. 5: IV – I (C Major – G Major first inversion with B in the bass)
m. 9: II? – I (A# diminished 7th? - G Major first inversion with B in the bass and D# as a transition to C Major in m. 10)
m. 10: IV – V7 (C Major– D 7th)
m. 11: I – rest (G Major – rest)

Second Section (pedal D)
Phrase 5:
m. 12: V7 – I (D7 in the 3rd and 4th strings – G Major)
m. 13: VI – V7 (E Major – D 7th); the first chord could also be V𝄯7?
m. 14: I – V7 (G Major – D 7th)
m. 15: V𝄰7 – I (D𝄰7? – G Major)
m. 16: IV – I (C Major – G Major)
m. 17: V7 – I (D7 – G Major)
m. 18: V7 – I/V7 (D7 – G Major/D7); with an ornament in the 2nd chord, an acciaccatura, making a short transition from G Major to D7, before going back to G Major in the following measure, the 19
m. 19: I – V7 (G Major – D7 in the 3rd and 4th strings)
Phrase 6:
(quite similar to phrase 5 in what chords are concerned)
m. 20: V7 – I (D7 in the 3rd and 4th strings – G Major)
m. 21: VI – V7 (E Major – D 7th); the first chord could also be D𝄯7?
m. 22: I – V7 (G Major – D 7th)
m. 23: V𝄰7 – I (D𝄰7? – G Major)
m. 24: I – I (G Major – G Major)
m. 25: V7 - ?-V7 (D 7th - ?-D 7th); the 2nd half of the measure starts with a chord I
don’t know how to name (in the picture) and ends in V7
Unknown Chord.png
m. 26: I - ? (G Major – (?) sounds like A Major or C# Major)
m. 27: V – V7 (D major with bass in F# - D 7th)
Phrase 7:
Same as phrase 1, 2nd repeat
Phrase 8:
Same as phrase 4, 1st repeat and Fine

And this is as far as I'm able to go for the moment. For sure there will be mistakes and I'll be grateful if someone points them out and corrects them. There are also chords - signalled with and interrogation mark - which I don't know how to name. Again, if anyone can name them I would be grateful. One last remark: the BBC code used in this forum doesn't allow for a better formatting of the post (how do you insert a tab, for instance?) so the text might be a bit confusing. I'm sorry for that :(.

Edited to correct minor spelling mistakes... and later to include the pictures of chords
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Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/51, Ced, RW B&S, JP
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW B&S, Banyoles, ES

rpavich
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by rpavich » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:28 pm

Well!

I'm in!

Brand new player here. 30 years learning bad rock habits and not sounding like I should...7 year hiatus from playing anything...now back to classical from the ground up and ready to try this.

It will be a few days, I'm at the point where I'm making sure my hands and body and guitar are in the right positions and how to make proper sound. I'm trying not to put the cart before the horse and play pieces before I make sure that I'm developing good habits.

Now...to read through this whole thread...whew!

mainterm
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by mainterm » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:46 pm
<snip>... I’ll go, nevertheless, as far as I’ll be able in this “analysis”, as I’ll learn something more in the process and, who knows, may be others in this Project will find it useful ... <snip>
Hi Jorge - you are clearly very dedicated to this effort!

My suggestion is to read about analytical methods - in books, online. Perhaps you have a teacher who can help. Not that anything you've done is misdirected per se. Music Theory and analysis is just a really huge subject. And as these things tend to do, they attract a lot of smart people with different ideas about what is "right" and what is "wrong".

There are some resources here on delcamp as well (forums, threads, etc), but you will find quite a smattering of differing opinions, nomenclature and so on.

Specifically with respect to this piece, you may find that something which some (esp. US folks) call "functional harmony" to be of more use than a detailed surface analysis of individual harmonies. Of course this is a rabbit hole that may be more confusing than it is helpful.

Nonetheless you could simplify your analysis a little by incorporating an approach like this:

A section: - mm.1-8 (mm.1-11 in your edition)
first repeat: Tonic (I) to Dominant 7 (V7) [perhaps think of this as the question....]
second repeat: Tonic (I) to V7 (m.7) to Tonic (I) [...and this as the answer]

B section: - mm.9-24 (mm.12-27 in your edition) [perhaps an even bigger question...]
Phrase 1: V - V (mm.9-16)
Phrase 2: repeat of phrase 1 with variation (mm.17-24) - notably in the last three bars we get V7 -- I -- V(4th inv.)/V -- V.

The ostinatos combined with incomplete triads will invariably create ambiguity on the most detailed surface level (keeping in mind here that a solid argument could made that section A has a "g" ostinato in middle voice).

In any case, the function the harmonies fulfill to create tension/resolution - or Tonic (resolution) to Dominant (tension) - is quite clearly understood aurally, without detailed analysis. There is also the idea of "dominant preparation" or "sub-dominant" to explain musical content that moves away from tonic, toward dominant, but itself isn't really either one. C major in #19 could be called this - e.g. beat one of m.5. Off the top of my head I might argue that nearly the entire B section is "dominant prep" leading to dominant in final measure.

In any case, the end of phrase two with strong statement of V, sets up the return to A section. Similar to phrase structure in A section, the B section asks a question (dominant harmony/V7) which is answered by repeat of A section with cadence on I (answer).

Perhaps this is helpful to you.

Best of luck!

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