Jose Sonata Recordings

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Jim Davidson
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Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Jim Davidson » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:31 pm

Hey fellow Delcampers,

I'm just starting on this beast of a sonata for my Master's recital. I'm mainly working off of performances by Marko Topchii and Marcin Dylla, but I figured I'd see if you guys have any recommendations for good recordings/interpretations of this piece.

Thanks in advance!

-Jim
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David_Norton
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by David_Norton » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:12 pm

Julian Bream recorded it on his final CD "Sonata" (works by Paganini, Jose, Castelnuovo-Tedesco) in 1995.
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:13 pm

How about going to the score? For a masters I'd imagine that's what they're looking for - your reading.

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James Lister
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by James Lister » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:17 pm

I really like Ian Watt's recording. I don't know the sonata that well, so don't have much to compare it with, but I really like Ian's playing.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:26 pm

Well the first recording should be a strong point of reference, as it is at least that which is closest to the composer, it being made by an ex student of the dedicatee, Regino Sainz de la Maza, namely Ricardo Iznaola.

I assume you are working from the second edition, the one in the landscape format, which is definitely preferable in being based on the composer's final pencil draft, as distinct from the first edition, which was based on an earlier draft, but of which I gather copies are still in circulation.
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Jim Davidson
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Jim Davidson » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:03 pm

David_Norton wrote:Julian Bream recorded it on his final CD "Sonata" (works by Paganini, Jose, Castelnuovo-Tedesco) in 1995.
Bream played it!? This I have to hear.
Denian Arcoleo wrote:How about going to the score? For a masters I'd imagine that's what they're looking for - your reading.
Yes, a great amount can be taken from the score, both technically and musically. It is a matter of which editions and fingerings (or combination) to use. The fingerings affect the phrasing and articulation greatly. There's also plenty of variety in articulation & phrasing between different players. Sometimes a player will bring something out that I didn't notice when reading the score.
James Lister wrote:I really like Ian Watt's recording. I don't know the sonata that well, so don't have much to compare it with, but I really like Ian's playing.

James
I gave Ian's recording a listen and loved it. He manages to give it personality despite its difficulty. I've been a fan of Ian's since I heard his Bach PFA on youtube. Hope to see more of him in the future.
Stephen Kenyon wrote:Well the first recording should be a strong point of reference, as it is at least that which is closest to the composer, it being made by an ex student of the dedicatee, Regino Sainz de la Maza, namely Ricardo Iznaola.

I assume you are working from the second edition, the one in the landscape format, which is definitely preferable in being based on the composer's final pencil draft, as distinct from the first edition, which was based on an earlier draft, but of which I gather copies are still in circulation.
I didn't know this! I started by working out of a 1990 Gilardino edition (that included the manuscript) which mentioned that Regino Sainz de la Maza premiered the first movement in 1934, but I didn't know that Iznaola studied with him or that he made the first recording. A quick search brought me to a newer edition co-edited by Iznaola and Gilardino. Some of the fingerings are very different, but it still gives me more ideas to work with. I'll have to hunt down that Iznaola recording. Many thanks, Stephen!
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by riffmeister » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:05 pm

I love Bream's rendition.

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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:27 pm

Jim Davidson wrote:
Stephen Kenyon wrote:Well the first recording should be a strong point of reference, as it is at least that which is closest to the composer, it being made by an ex student of the dedicatee, Regino Sainz de la Maza, namely Ricardo Iznaola.
I assume you are working from the second edition, the one in the landscape format, which is definitely preferable in being based on the composer's final pencil draft, as distinct from the first edition, which was based on an earlier draft, but of which I gather copies are still in circulation.
I didn't know this! I started by working out of a 1990 Gilardino edition (that included the manuscript) which mentioned that Regino Sainz de la Maza premiered the first movement in 1934, but I didn't know that Iznaola studied with him or that he made the first recording. A quick search brought me to a newer edition co-edited by Iznaola and Gilardino. Some of the fingerings are very different, but it still gives me more ideas to work with. I'll have to hunt down that Iznaola recording. Many thanks, Stephen!
OK! Well I can't emphasise too much that its not just fingering, there are important differences in detail. I'll declare my interest here...

I went on various summer schools at which Iznaola was a guest and got to know him a bit as you do in these things. When I was reviewing for Classical Guitar Magazine I ended up reviewing RI's disc on which he'd recorded the José - this would be about 1996 - and I mentioned tangentially that Iznaola had been promoting the piece for years "not that you'd know that from various other sources" (words to that effect). After it was published out of the blue I got a gigantic email - c 60 KB pure text - from Angelo Gilardino, telling me his side of the story, which was basically that he'd not known of Iznaola when the original copy that was passed to him arrived, and he'd been so keen on it he'd put it into print in a couple of months. After a few, initially cautious if not frosty, emails, we were good e-pals so basically I introduced Gilardino to Iznaola, got them to work together on a new edition respecting the composer's clearly final known draft - and I put in a bid to engrave the music too, which I duly did. We worked really hard to make the best possible edition of what the composer wrote, in the light of how Iznaola knew it from Regino, for whom it was written and who had performed the first movement, and in the light of Iznaola's many years of knowing the piece. The editors' prefaces will provide plenty of important background information that you really cannot be without.

Unfortunately that role in bringing the 2nd edition about is not acknowledged in the book, so I perhaps feel the need to air the issue and set the record straight in public now and then! :desole:

It bugs me badly that people are still using the first edition, not least because obviously most are using photocopies, which is straight up illegal, but big time that its just not as final a draft as the second.

Point of view other recordings, I would indeed reference other readings and of course the Bream is important, thought I suspect the Watt is also well worth study (I'll be at a recital of his early next year).
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Granary Guitars » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:36 pm

Bream's recording is my favourite - by quite a way.
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Lovemyguitar » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:46 pm

Another vote for Bream -- just an amazing and intense performance with such a scrumptious tone (he is playing a 1940 Hauser).

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Jim Davidson
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Jim Davidson » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:52 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote: I went on various summer schools at which Iznaola was a guest and got to know him a bit as you do in these things. When I was reviewing for Classical Guitar Magazine I ended up reviewing RI's disc on which he'd recorded the José - this would be about 1996 - and I mentioned tangentially that Iznaola had been promoting the piece for years "not that you'd know that from various other sources" (words to that effect). After it was published out of the blue I got a gigantic email - c 60 KB pure text - from Angelo Gilardino, telling me his side of the story, which was basically that he'd not known of Iznaola when the original copy that was passed to him arrived, and he'd been so keen on it he'd put it into print in a couple of months. After a few, initially cautious if not frosty, emails, we were good e-pals so basically I introduced Gilardino to Iznaola, got them to work together on a new edition respecting the composer's clearly final known draft - and I put in a bid to engrave the music too, which I duly did. We worked really hard to make the best possible edition of what the composer wrote, in the light of how Iznaola knew it from Regino, for whom it was written and who had performed the first movement, and in the light of Iznaola's many years of knowing the piece. The editors' prefaces will provide plenty of important background information that you really cannot be without.

Unfortunately that role in bringing the 2nd edition about is not acknowledged in the book, so I perhaps feel the need to air the issue and set the record straight in public now and then! :desole:

It bugs me badly that people are still using the first edition, not least because obviously most are using photocopies, which is straight up illegal, but big time that its just not as final a draft as the second.
Looks like I owe you a bit of thanks for the Iznaola/Gilardino edition's existence. When you say the first edition, do you mean the 1990 Gilardino/Gallego or the first draft manusciript?
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Erik Zurcher
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Erik Zurcher » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:53 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:How about going to the score? For a masters I'd imagine that's what they're looking for - your reading.
+1
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:54 pm

Jim Davidson wrote:
Looks like I owe you a bit of thanks for the Iznaola/Gilardino edition's existence. When you say the first edition, do you mean the 1990 Gilardino/Gallego or the first draft manusciript?
It was a fun ride bringing the two characters together Jim :merci:

It was also much down to the integrity of Angelo Gilardino who saw that a new edition was necessary in the light of new information, only 6 years or so since the first edition, which at a guess still had copies to go at the time.

Yes the first edition is the first printed edition of 1990 of Berben.
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by djajasoekarta » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:02 pm

Haven't heard Bream's so far. My favorite for this time is Denis Azabagic on his Naxos Laureate series.
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Re: Jose Sonata Recordings

Post by ben etow » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:02 pm

Erik Zurcher wrote:
Denian Arcoleo wrote:How about going to the score? For a masters I'd imagine that's what they're looking for - your reading.
+1
+2! I might add that it is very useful to take a look at both manuscripts.

I did read and work hard on this bl :chaud: :x dy score... Sweat and tears indeed but I ended up performing it. I am not a big fan of any version I heard on YT or CD (didn't listen to Ian Watt so far though), but Ricardo Gallén, Johan Fostier (no recording), Denis Azabagic, and Zoran Dukic are (were) worth listening.

BTW, I was lead to believe Juan José Saenz had been the first to record it.

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