Miguel Rosales Flamenco

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Laudiesdad69
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Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:45 am

Has anyone ever heard of Miguel Rosales guitars. I just came across one on Fleabay and it was 132 USD. It looked like a bargain, so I bought it. I figured that it might make a better camping guitar than my Córdoba Protege C1. It's model FC3. Anybody know where it's made? Did I just flush 132 down the toilet? It looks real nice. Flamed sycamore back and sides. Spruce top (solid).

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guitarseller345645
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby guitarseller345645 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:45 am

Look at the headstck. If it looks like one from a Manuel Rodriguez guitar, that may be a clue. A factory overrun from the China factory?
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Laudiesdad69
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:19 am

Hey guitarseller, I was thinking the same thing, China. But it's coming from Austrailia. It will make a better camping guitar than my Córdoba C1 protege, which is All laminates. I figured China or Vietnam at this price point. Good starter guitar for my grand kids when they are big enough. They are two and six. Santa brought them Ukeleles for Christmas.

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guitarseller345645
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby guitarseller345645 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:56 am

Laudiesdad, the Aussies are a bit special - the Martinez guitars made in China are sold only in OZ as Katoh :)
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robert e
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby robert e » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:26 pm

guitarseller345645 wrote:Look at the headstck. If it looks like one from a Manuel Rodriguez guitar, that may be a clue. A factory overrun from the China factory?

Whoa! You may be right. If it's the same Rosales model sold by kookaburra music tree. As far as I can tell from comparing pics: same headstock, same rosette, even the same headstock logo as Rodriguez Caballero flamenco. Does this kind of thing happen often?

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guitarseller345645
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby guitarseller345645 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:17 pm

robert e wrote:
guitarseller345645 wrote:Look at the headstck. If it looks like one from a Manuel Rodriguez guitar, that may be a clue. A factory overrun from the China factory?

Whoa! You may be right. If it's the same Rosales model sold by kookaburra music tree. As far as I can tell from comparing pics: same headstock, same rosette, even the same headstock logo as Rodriguez Caballero flamenco. Does this kind of thing happen often?


Haha...no...first time I have seen this...where even the initials of the names match.

But factories in China do overproduce and relabel - though they are usually more sophisticated about it eg. different tuners, tie block inlays etc.
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Ramon Amira
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby Ramon Amira » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:37 pm

This is a Manuel Rodriguez C3F flamenco guitar. They are sometimes seconds, and I have seen them advertised as "Blemished," so there's nothing really nefarious about this. The fact is that the Manuel Rodriguez C3F is an excellent flamenco guitar - for its category, and at the price it's a great deal - the regular C3F is close to $600.

Naturally Manuel III and Norman Rodriguez are not going to allow their brand to be sold at those prices, hence the "Miguel Rosales" to match the initials that are already on the guitar.

It's the same with the "Esteva" guitars, which are just Esteve. They might be seconds, or in some cases possibly just unloading too much stock. I see nothing wrong with any of this, it's good for the companies and good for consumers.

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guitarseller345645
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby guitarseller345645 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:47 am

robert e wrote:
guitarseller345645 wrote:Look at the headstck. If it looks like one from a Manuel Rodriguez guitar, that may be a clue. A factory overrun from the China factory?

Whoa! You may be right. If it's the same Rosales model sold by kookaburra music tree. As far as I can tell from comparing pics: same headstock, same rosette, even the same headstock logo as Rodriguez Caballero flamenco. Does this kind of thing happen often?

Forgot something...a local shop advertised a Manuel Rodriguez Model A for sale but when I examined it I found that though the headstock was the correct one and the "MR" logo was there, the rest of the guitar including the label did not look anything like the usual Model A advertised world wide.

Caveat emptor.
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Laudiesdad69
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:40 am

Well, indeed it is a Manuel Rodriguez C3 Flamenco. I had to do some minor work on it, just basic cleaning, removing rubbing compound from the finger board and polishing the frets. The area in China where I am pretty sure it's made must be really close to the water as the frets were somewhat corroded. But a little steel wool and gorgamite did the trick. The board was really dry'and took two coats of oil. The tuners needed to be tightened, and the saddle lowered. It also had the nut glued in in the wrong place, it was sticking out past the side of the neck. I removed it with a hammer and drift, and cleaned the slot. The nur is really loose after removing the glue, but is held in fine by the string tension. New set of normal tension Pro Arte strings and done.
Let me say that at $138.00 USD that this guitar was a bargain. It even came with one of those polyfoam cases like Córdoba uses on its guitars. This is my new camping guitar, and it has a solid top, laminated back and sides, and sounds a whole lot better than my Córdoba C1 Protege, which sounds like a plank. There were no problems getting it through customs and no cites certificate. I can't wait for my next Austrailian guitar to arrive. We will see how that one does through customs as the back, sides, fingerboard and bridge are IRW.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:25 am

The funny thing is that they stuck the Miguel Rosales label over the top of the Rodriguez label and didn't even try to cover the old label all the way. The action was 10/64 at the high E 12th fret and 12/64 on he low E. I now have the action at 8/64 and 10/64, but will lower it some more after I try the Augustine red strings on it as they are a little heavier tension than the EJ45.
So far it plays ok and it sounds a little trebbly. Laminated back and sides for you. The Augustine's should round out the trebles though.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:32 pm

I worked on the saddle some more. Action is now 7/64 high E and 8/64 low E. it's quite nice/ playable now

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guitarseller345645
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby guitarseller345645 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:03 pm

What other Australian guitar are you expecting?
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Laudiesdad69
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:44 am

guitarseller345645 wrote:What other Australian guitar are you expecting?


I'm expecting another "Miguel Rosales" guitar, a thin body CG electric that may be a re-labeled Kremona.

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guitarseller345645
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby guitarseller345645 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:48 am

That is cool...Kremona does come relabelled eg Juan Salvador, Granados :)
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Laudiesdad69
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Re: Miguel Rosales Flamenco

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:51 am

guitarseller345645 wrote:That is cool...Kremona does come relabelled eg Juan Salvador, Granados :)


Well my other "Miguel Rosales" guitar came in and it indeed appears to be a re-labeled Kremona. Although the top of the headstock is a little different, and they actually put the label on carefully so as to cover the original label completely. I was looking at a similar "Kremona" at my friend's guitar shop, and it looks like a clone of the Kremona.
Instead of walnut back and sides the new one has rosewood. But they feel the same to me when I play them. They both have the same Fishman system on them and the dimensions and thickness are exactly the same. They both feel exactly the same and both have 51 mm nut. Both have rosewood boards. The tuners are different finish, nickel on the Kremona and gold on Miguel Rosales. I wonder if it really is Kremona though. Does Kremona have guitars manufactured outside of Bulgaria? I wonder. Some of the included accessories, like the extra set of strings say made in China, but there was a bag of picks that say "lyon by Washburn" and a e headstock shape is the same as the same guitar on the Australian e - b a y site that is branded Caraya, but that guitar is mahogany.
I took it out and played it today and it worked flawlessly. I played it through my Marshall combo amp. Whether it is actually a Kremona re-label, or some other brand, all I know for sure is that it serves my needs on the cheap. Perhaps Guitarseller can shed some light? The action is really low, 6/64th across at the 12th.


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