The Aguado project

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
2handband
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by 2handband » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:55 am

tateharmann wrote:Great idea...love me some Aguado ha :)

Lessons 10, 18, and 19 from the Nuevo Metodo are very pretty and quite easy.

Here's a recording I did a while back of 18: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=93260

I change up the tempo and such to make them more interesting sometimes. I've played lesson 7 from the same method on a Ukulele in a swing beat...you'd swear the composer was some Hawaiian beach bum lol.
That was terrific... it can be tough to bring out the beauty in a piece like that. Very nice, and thank you for posting it.
Robin wrote:
Just out of curiosity, do you have a system of some sort to base your grading on? I believe it gets complex once you begin to look at all the aspects of a piece and try to put it into a category.

Interesting project!

Robin
It is complex, and I'm sort of working out my system as I go. Right now I'm just trying to narrow down what material I want to use. That by itself is going to take some time.

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tateharmann
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by tateharmann » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:18 am

2handband wrote:That was terrific... it can be tough to bring out the beauty in a piece like that. Very nice, and thank you for posting it.
Thanks!

Here's No. 10 by a former member, also very nice: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=69278
"Speed is the enemy of emotion." - Emilio Pujol Vilarrubi

2handband
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by 2handband » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:17 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:Not me. My 19th-century study was centred on Sor, Giuliani and Carulli. I never really clicked with Aguado. That is until I found a collection of six waltzes, I forget the opus number, but I recorded three of them on video. Wonderful pieces. I should explore his music more.
Got em. The reason you don't recall the opus is there isn't one. Those waltzes are from an unnumbered collection entitled muestra De afecto y reconocimiento, publication date uncertain.

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RobMacKillop
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by RobMacKillop » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:35 pm

Ah. I think I downloaded them from the Boije Collection site. Really enjoyable pieces to play.

2handband
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by 2handband » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:46 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:Ah. I think I downloaded them from the Boije Collection site. Really enjoyable pieces to play.
I just scored a cheap NOS copy of the now out of print Aguado Complete Works Volume 4, which contains the works without opus number. It was in there. The book is just fascimiles so it's nothing you can't get online for free, but I got a new one for $6 shipped and the quality of the scans is much higher than most of the online stuff. If I can find volumes 1 & 3 for similar prices I'll grab them. Volume 2 is just the 1843 method of which I already have the tecla edition.
Last edited by 2handband on Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tateharmann
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by tateharmann » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:24 am

Cool! I've been wanting to get a copy of that volume.

Here's another fun one w/o an opus number: viewtopic.php?t=61454

You should find it in the same volume 4.

Cheers!
"Speed is the enemy of emotion." - Emilio Pujol Vilarrubi

2handband
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by 2handband » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:28 am

tateharmann wrote:Cool! I've been wanting to get a copy of that volume.

Here's another fun one w/o an opus number: viewtopic.php?t=61454

You should find it in the same volume 4.

Cheers!
Indeed it is...

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tateharmann
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by tateharmann » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:47 pm

Another one I really like: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=109603

Lesson 24 - pretty easy piece.
"Speed is the enemy of emotion." - Emilio Pujol Vilarrubi

2handband
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by 2handband » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:05 pm

Thanks Tate. Interesting interpretation; my own take on that one is quite different.

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tateharmann
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by tateharmann » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:04 pm

Thanks! I'm guessing yours is faster?? Haha...I play everything slow :)
"Speed is the enemy of emotion." - Emilio Pujol Vilarrubi

daverkb
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by daverkb » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:09 pm

I am glad to see this much interest in Aguado. I had studied Sor, and a little Carcassi, and not much else for student studies. Recently, I took a look at the Aguado Method and was struck right away with the lucidity of the approach. I do agree that Aguado sometimes does really big stretches, and maybe ... just maybe ... Aguado had really big hands?

One thing which I found to be of historical interest is that both Aguado and Sor lived in the same hotel in Paris.

I note that Sor always recommended the simplest approach in fingerings. Don't go out of the way to make things complicated. Do the most efficient thing with the fingers. This is some very good advice. Sor, in addition, used mostly the p, m and i, and did so to great acclaim. This made me more comfortable in my self-taught heavy reliance of m and a on the first two treble strings, with i, m and a combinations strong in the middle range of the strings and a heavy use of the thumb on the bass strings as one would expect.

The bottom line is to find out an efficient use of the fingers which also promotes good tone and stability of the strike hand over the strings. I am pretty sure that in players of accomplishment, there is a range of variation in how fingers are used.

2handband
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by 2handband » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:34 am

daverkb wrote:I am glad to see this much interest in Aguado. I had studied Sor, and a little Carcassi, and not much else for student studies. Recently, I took a look at the Aguado Method and was struck right away with the lucidity of the approach.
Which method have you been looking at? There are three. I've been staring at them a lot over the past week and it's instructive to consider the differences.

The first, the escuela De guitarra circa 1825, contains the most music music and would be the most effective to give to a student at or near the beginning stages. It starts with single note lines in the bass with lots of examples and makes a somewhat progressive transition to chords and arpeggios and then to music in two lines. There are A LOT of short pieces in here, more than in later methods and in general a more diverse and interesting selection. It ends with 30 etudes which are musically of high quality and technically challenging. Some are quite lengthy. Sadly the considerable text is either in French or Spanish depending on which edition you get; I know of no translation into English which is a great pity as there is an extensive discussion of theory in here. In particular I am eyeballing this chart which matches scale degrees with sollfege syllables through all the modes and am dying to read the supporting text. I'd pay top dollar for a translation.

Then there is the nouvelle methode De guitare published in 1834. It's supposed to be for amateurs with an aim towards playing "agreeable pieces" quickly. It is NOT a beginners method; really it is a manual to teach someone who already plays how to find his/her way around the higher positions of the neck. The musical examples are all waltzes, and the quality is uneven. An edition was published in England so you can get a facsimile in English.

The last is the one most modern guitarists recognize, the nuevo methodo para guitarra published in 1843 with appendix added in 1849. In comparison with the 1820 method there is far less beginner's study; I wouldn't throw either of them at a novice but the 1843 method doesn't even try. Aguado also omits the section on theory, suggesting instead that the student learn sollfege and harmony before jumping into the method. The musical examples in the earlier stages often are a bit samey one to the next, which I think is deliberate. You'll get three or four pieces in a row with similar characteristics, allowing you to focus on the specific didactic intent of each without having to learn too much new stuff at once. That's the good news here: if you're already playing around level 2 or so this book is wonderfully progressive and insanely thorough. A more complete treatise on every single aspect of solo guitar technique you'd be hard pressed to find anywhere, even today. Once you get past lesson 25 or so the music is delightful although not quite as diverse as that in the 1825 method. It caps off with 27 wonderful if challenging studies, 16 of which are repeats from the 30 etudes that appear at the end of the 1825 method. This book has a modern edition translated into English available from tecla.

In summary, if I wanted to throw Aguado at a beginner I would choose the 1825 method, and I wish someone would translate the damn thing. Editions Orphee has an edition containing the music but omitting the text, which is maddening because apparently they DID translate it but decided at the last minute to not publish the translation. For an advanced beginner and above the 1843 is king for being progressive and thorough although there are some studies from the 1825 I would throw in there. The studies at the end of the two methods are a treasure trove; a total of 41 intermediate to advanced etudes of high musical worth. The 1834 method is mostly of historical interest although there are some nice pieces in there.

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RobMacKillop
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by RobMacKillop » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:52 am

Good post, 2hb.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:04 pm

2handband wrote:..... Sadly the considerable text is either in French or Spanish depending on which edition you get; I know of no translation into English which is a great pity as there is an extensive discussion of theory in here. In particular I am eyeballing this chart which matches scale degrees with sollfege syllables through all the modes and am dying to read the supporting text. I'd pay top dollar for a translation.
....
Just as an experiment I copied some text (literally, Cmd C) from the PDF and pasted it into google translate;

Hace mas de doscientos setenta anos que la guitarra (antes vihuela) está reconocida como instrumento capaz de armonía

became

More than two hundred and seventy years ago the guitar (formerly vihuela) is recognized as an instrument capable of harmony

which seems to make sense (albeit, its not necessarily actually true in a historical sense!)
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
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Louis Panormo (1838)
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2handband
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Re: The Aguado project

Post by 2handband » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:30 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
2handband wrote:..... Sadly the considerable text is either in French or Spanish depending on which edition you get; I know of no translation into English which is a great pity as there is an extensive discussion of theory in here. In particular I am eyeballing this chart which matches scale degrees with sollfege syllables through all the modes and am dying to read the supporting text. I'd pay top dollar for a translation.
....
Just as an experiment I copied some text (literally, Cmd C) from the PDF and pasted it into google translate;

Hace mas de doscientos setenta anos que la guitarra (antes vihuela) está reconocida como instrumento capaz de armonía

became

More than two hundred and seventy years ago the guitar (formerly vihuela) is recognized as an instrument capable of harmony

which seems to make sense (albeit, its not necessarily actually true in a historical sense!)
Christ... I didn't even think about asking the internet to do it for me. It'd probably come out muddled but understandable. Thanks, Stephen! I'll try it out and report back.

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