Martinez guitars

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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eno
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Martinez guitars

Post by eno » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:57 pm

Johannes Moller advertizes Martinez classical guitars. The professional and master models sound very nice although I'm not sure how much of the sound is from Johannes's playing and sound processing and how much it is from the guitar itself:
DF69
DF69 PV
Godoy III PV
Has anyone tried or owned one? Could you share your experience? How does it sound? How does it compare with other brands in the similar price range?
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Rokutaru Nakade 1967
Masaru Kohno 1967
Sakazo Nakade 1973
Mitsuru Tamura 1969
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Lovemyguitar
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by Lovemyguitar » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:05 pm

I attended a concert last year by Johannes Möller and Laura Fraticelli, and they were both playing Martinez guitars (although I don't know which model(s)). They sounded just fine, as one would expect from concert guitars (played unamplified in a small hall, by professionals!). I cannot offer any comparisons to other guitars nor more detailed info, but the fact that Möller actually plays the guitars in concerts, and doesn't just advertise for them, says something.

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Yogi Ponappa
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by Yogi Ponappa » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:26 am

In the interests of full disclosure, let me first say - I used to promote Martinez guitars in India, though I no longer do so (simply because I spend much of my time outside India, and though I do love the Martinez guitars I've played, I also like playing my own instruments by other makers).

I have both tried and played opposite Johannes' own Godoy III and his spruce top DF-69, as well as played other cedar topped DF-69s, and a few other Martinez models, both top drawer and mid level. To start with the least exciting first:

The mid level guitars have great tone, are surprisingly responsive, and project reasonably well, but they come with chunky necks (which for me is a 'but' - people who like thick necks wouldn't mind this, of course) which only become slim-profile when one gets towards the higher end models. For the money (USD 500-1000), I'd say they are among the best you could find, and what struck me most about their quality in the mid-level guitars was the straightness and closeness of the grain on the tops. (which accounts for these student guitars punching above their weight, I'm sure)

As for their higher end instruments, the Jorge Godoy III and the DF-69 are both proper concert instruments, and do everything you'd expect a well made luthier guitar to do. They're loud, warm, very responsive, and sound good with minimal inputs while also standing up to the kind of thrashing Johannes sometimes gives his guitar (see his India-inspired album for examples). Beyond this, I wouldn't call the Godoy's sound particularly distinctive in any way, though. The DF-69s on the other hand, are in my opinion Martinez's best model all round - apart from keeping up with the Godoy in every way, they are either pleasantly rich and mellow sounding for the spruce, or 'dark', focused, and punchy for the cedar. For balance in all registers, I'd say the spruce tops the cedar (no pun intended). The DF69 being just north of 2500 USD, and the Godoy around 3500 (if I remember right), I'd say they both hold their own with guitars double the price. I wouldn't like to say they outclass guitars in their own price range, because there are a few luthiers out there who turn out respectable instruments in the 2000-3000 range, but I'd say you could definitely do a lot worse for the money.

Hope that gives you some idea - they're really quite something, especially for the price.
'haatha' yoga

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eno
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by eno » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:32 pm

Yogi, thank you VERY MUSCH for such a comprehensive info.

I have a big dilemma (or multi-lemma) now to find a good instrument in $2-4K range, there are so many luthiers and companies to choose from. And the problem is - only few of them are available in local stores to try and it's really hard to choose an instrument without trying, so I'm listening to youtube clips.

I'm fascinated by the sound of Paulino Bernabe guitars such as this:
Model 10
Model 50
There is something special and charming in this sound that is hard to describe, even from mid-level Bernabe's guitars like M10-M20.

Anyway, I'm drifting to off-topic, this thread is about Martinez guitars which are also definitely great guitars.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Rokutaru Nakade 1967
Masaru Kohno 1967
Sakazo Nakade 1973
Mitsuru Tamura 1969
Takamine C136S and C128S
Yamaha SLG200S silent

llch
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by llch » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:06 am

Yogi Ponappa wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:26 am
In the interests of full disclosure, let me first say - I used to promote Martinez guitars in India, though I no longer do so (simply because I spend much of my time outside India, and though I do love the Martinez guitars I've played, I also like playing my own instruments by other makers).

I have both tried and played opposite Johannes' own Godoy III and his spruce top DF-69, as well as played other cedar topped DF-69s, and a few other Martinez models, both top drawer and mid level. To start with the least exciting first:

The mid level guitars have great tone, are surprisingly responsive, and project reasonably well, but they come with chunky necks (which for me is a 'but' - people who like thick necks wouldn't mind this, of course) which only become slim-profile when one gets towards the higher end models. For the money (USD 500-1000), I'd say they are among the best you could find, and what struck me most about their quality in the mid-level guitars was the straightness and closeness of the grain on the tops. (which accounts for these student guitars punching above their weight, I'm sure)

As for their higher end instruments, the Jorge Godoy III and the DF-69 are both proper concert instruments, and do everything you'd expect a well made luthier guitar to do. They're loud, warm, very responsive, and sound good with minimal inputs while also standing up to the kind of thrashing Johannes sometimes gives his guitar (see his India-inspired album for examples). Beyond this, I wouldn't call the Godoy's sound particularly distinctive in any way, though. The DF-69s on the other hand, are in my opinion Martinez's best model all round - apart from keeping up with the Godoy in every way, they are either pleasantly rich and mellow sounding for the spruce, or 'dark', focused, and punchy for the cedar. For balance in all registers, I'd say the spruce tops the cedar (no pun intended). The DF69 being just north of 2500 USD, and the Godoy around 3500 (if I remember right), I'd say they both hold their own with guitars double the price. I wouldn't like to say they outclass guitars in their own price range, because there are a few luthiers out there who turn out respectable instruments in the 2000-3000 range, but I'd say you could definitely do a lot worse for the money.

Hope that gives you some idea - they're really quite something, especially for the price.
Going back to Martinez - for your call, you are saying that DF69, a cheaper price guitar is better than the Godoy? Which Godoy did you try out? I assume it's the double top since you mentioned Johannes' own model? That's particularly interesting, as it's quite a bit of price difference! Mind commenting on that?

hesson11
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by hesson11 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:20 am

There seems to be some connection between Martinez and Kenny Hill. From the Martinez site:

"Additionally we are supported by internationally reknowned luthier Kenny Hill, who offers invaluable training to our production team in all aspects of design, quality control and international standards."

I would consider any connection to be all to the good for the Martinez guitars. Several of their models seem to be similar to the Cordoba Master Series guitars, which in turn are descended, so to speak, from Kenny's own excellent Master Series guitars of years past.
-Bob

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Yogi Ponappa
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by Yogi Ponappa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:50 pm

llch wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:06 am
Yogi Ponappa wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:26 am
In the interests of full disclosure, let me first say - I used to promote Martinez guitars in India, though I no longer do so (simply because I spend much of my time outside India, and though I do love the Martinez guitars I've played, I also like playing my own instruments by other makers).

I have both tried and played opposite Johannes' own Godoy III and his spruce top DF-69, as well as played other cedar topped DF-69s, and a few other Martinez models, both top drawer and mid level. To start with the least exciting first:

The mid level guitars have great tone, are surprisingly responsive, and project reasonably well, but they come with chunky necks (which for me is a 'but' - people who like thick necks wouldn't mind this, of course) which only become slim-profile when one gets towards the higher end models. For the money (USD 500-1000), I'd say they are among the best you could find, and what struck me most about their quality in the mid-level guitars was the straightness and closeness of the grain on the tops. (which accounts for these student guitars punching above their weight, I'm sure)

As for their higher end instruments, the Jorge Godoy III and the DF-69 are both proper concert instruments, and do everything you'd expect a well made luthier guitar to do. They're loud, warm, very responsive, and sound good with minimal inputs while also standing up to the kind of thrashing Johannes sometimes gives his guitar (see his India-inspired album for examples). Beyond this, I wouldn't call the Godoy's sound particularly distinctive in any way, though. The DF-69s on the other hand, are in my opinion Martinez's best model all round - apart from keeping up with the Godoy in every way, they are either pleasantly rich and mellow sounding for the spruce, or 'dark', focused, and punchy for the cedar. For balance in all registers, I'd say the spruce tops the cedar (no pun intended). The DF69 being just north of 2500 USD, and the Godoy around 3500 (if I remember right), I'd say they both hold their own with guitars double the price. I wouldn't like to say they outclass guitars in their own price range, because there are a few luthiers out there who turn out respectable instruments in the 2000-3000 range, but I'd say you could definitely do a lot worse for the money.

Hope that gives you some idea - they're really quite something, especially for the price.
Going back to Martinez - for your call, you are saying that DF69, a cheaper price guitar is better than the Godoy? Which Godoy did you try out? I assume it's the double top since you mentioned Johannes' own model? That's particularly interesting, as it's quite a bit of price difference! Mind commenting on that?
Hi - yes, the Godoy III I tried out was Johannes' own instrument, i.e. the spruce double top. Between it and the DF-69, I wouldn't say either guitar is better or worse, in that both are loud, powerful, and balanced. I'd say the sound differences between them are that the Godoy 3 is louder than the DF-69, and that the DF-69 sounds richer, be it spruce or cedar topped. As one might expect of a spruce solid top, a new DF-69 spruce top won't sound its best straight out of the store, and will gain power and tone over its first few months/first year, so in an initial playing comparison in a store, or straight out of the box, it may not seem to hold its own.

Both the DF-69 and the Godoy incorporate really high quality wood, which isn't much of a surprise considering the Martinez team includes someone whose name escapes me right now, but who is manic about acquiring top quality woods from around the world. I expect that most of the price difference between the two guitars is made up by the double top vs a solid top, and perhaps the inlays of mother of pearl and the sound ports (which are customisable for shape and size) on the Godoy. Also, going back to my experience of the Godoy, to give you a sense of what it is and does, let me say it sounded not that dissimilar to the Kenny Hill Signature that Johannes used to play earlier, in his pre-Martinez days. Loud, balanced, responsive - but in my view, a bit lacking in colour and 'personality'. Which isn't so surprising either, considering it came at least in part from the Hill drawing board.
'haatha' yoga

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Yogi Ponappa
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by Yogi Ponappa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:01 pm

hesson11 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:20 am
There seems to be some connection between Martinez and Kenny Hill. From the Martinez site:

"Additionally we are supported by internationally reknowned luthier Kenny Hill, who offers invaluable training to our production team in all aspects of design, quality control and international standards."

I would consider any connection to be all to the good for the Martinez guitars. Several of their models seem to be similar to the Cordoba Master Series guitars, which in turn are descended, so to speak, from Kenny's own excellent Master Series guitars of years past.
-Bob
This is indeed the case - Kenny Hill designed most if not all of the Martinez classical range, and set up their workshop and luthiers. And their Df-69, Torres, Munich, and Hauser are twins to the Cordoba Master Series. The reason for this duplication is that Cordoba is building them for the American market, and Martinez is building them for the Asian and also perhaps the European market.
'haatha' yoga

llch
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by llch » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:04 am

Yogi Ponappa wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:50 pm
llch wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:06 am
Yogi Ponappa wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:26 am
In the interests of full disclosure, let me first say - I used to promote Martinez guitars in India, though I no longer do so (simply because I spend much of my time outside India, and though I do love the Martinez guitars I've played, I also like playing my own instruments by other makers).

I have both tried and played opposite Johannes' own Godoy III and his spruce top DF-69, as well as played other cedar topped DF-69s, and a few other Martinez models, both top drawer and mid level. To start with the least exciting first:

The mid level guitars have great tone, are surprisingly responsive, and project reasonably well, but they come with chunky necks (which for me is a 'but' - people who like thick necks wouldn't mind this, of course) which only become slim-profile when one gets towards the higher end models. For the money (USD 500-1000), I'd say they are among the best you could find, and what struck me most about their quality in the mid-level guitars was the straightness and closeness of the grain on the tops. (which accounts for these student guitars punching above their weight, I'm sure)

As for their higher end instruments, the Jorge Godoy III and the DF-69 are both proper concert instruments, and do everything you'd expect a well made luthier guitar to do. They're loud, warm, very responsive, and sound good with minimal inputs while also standing up to the kind of thrashing Johannes sometimes gives his guitar (see his India-inspired album for examples). Beyond this, I wouldn't call the Godoy's sound particularly distinctive in any way, though. The DF-69s on the other hand, are in my opinion Martinez's best model all round - apart from keeping up with the Godoy in every way, they are either pleasantly rich and mellow sounding for the spruce, or 'dark', focused, and punchy for the cedar. For balance in all registers, I'd say the spruce tops the cedar (no pun intended). The DF69 being just north of 2500 USD, and the Godoy around 3500 (if I remember right), I'd say they both hold their own with guitars double the price. I wouldn't like to say they outclass guitars in their own price range, because there are a few luthiers out there who turn out respectable instruments in the 2000-3000 range, but I'd say you could definitely do a lot worse for the money.

Hope that gives you some idea - they're really quite something, especially for the price.
Going back to Martinez - for your call, you are saying that DF69, a cheaper price guitar is better than the Godoy? Which Godoy did you try out? I assume it's the double top since you mentioned Johannes' own model? That's particularly interesting, as it's quite a bit of price difference! Mind commenting on that?
Hi - yes, the Godoy III I tried out was Johannes' own instrument, i.e. the spruce double top. Between it and the DF-69, I wouldn't say either guitar is better or worse, in that both are loud, powerful, and balanced. I'd say the sound differences between them are that the Godoy 3 is louder than the DF-69, and that the DF-69 sounds richer, be it spruce or cedar topped. As one might expect of a spruce solid top, a new DF-69 spruce top won't sound its best straight out of the store, and will gain power and tone over its first few months/first year, so in an initial playing comparison in a store, or straight out of the box, it may not seem to hold its own.

Both the DF-69 and the Godoy incorporate really high quality wood, which isn't much of a surprise considering the Martinez team includes someone whose name escapes me right now, but who is manic about acquiring top quality woods from around the world. I expect that most of the price difference between the two guitars is made up by the double top vs a solid top, and perhaps the inlays of mother of pearl and the sound ports (which are customisable for shape and size) on the Godoy. Also, going back to my experience of the Godoy, to give you a sense of what it is and does, let me say it sounded not that dissimilar to the Kenny Hill Signature that Johannes used to play earlier, in his pre-Martinez days. Loud, balanced, responsive - but in my view, a bit lacking in colour and 'personality'. Which isn't so surprising either, considering it came at least in part from the Hill drawing board.
Thanks for the info! That's a really interesting comment. I myself am thinking of buying a Godoy III - however surprise it's a single top spruce! Sounds like it will actually be almost DF-69 like... which might make me wonder why I get it instead of the DF-69 :roll:
In fact it might even not be as good, as you were saying that it lacks in colour, or say something like a tone of it's own (like the old Spanish guitars that everyone reveres! Cue for Torres...). Have you ever tried one of those single top Godoy III?

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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by Philosopherguy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:40 am

I have played a number of the Martinez guitars when I was in China last. I am going to China again soon and I hope to play a Martinez Torres model. Everything that I played in the past was quite good, but I did not get a chance to play any of their high end stuff just the mid range/low end. All the clips I have heard of the Torres model sound good, but I want to try one if I can.

I am hoping there is somewhere in Beijing that carries their high end stuff that I can try! If anyone knows where, let me know!

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

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Yogi Ponappa
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by Yogi Ponappa » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:31 am

llch wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:04 am
Yogi Ponappa wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:50 pm
llch wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:06 am


Going back to Martinez - for your call, you are saying that DF69, a cheaper price guitar is better than the Godoy? Which Godoy did you try out? I assume it's the double top since you mentioned Johannes' own model? That's particularly interesting, as it's quite a bit of price difference! Mind commenting on that?
Hi - yes, the Godoy III I tried out was Johannes' own instrument, i.e. the spruce double top. Between it and the DF-69, I wouldn't say either guitar is better or worse, in that both are loud, powerful, and balanced. I'd say the sound differences between them are that the Godoy 3 is louder than the DF-69, and that the DF-69 sounds richer, be it spruce or cedar topped. As one might expect of a spruce solid top, a new DF-69 spruce top won't sound its best straight out of the store, and will gain power and tone over its first few months/first year, so in an initial playing comparison in a store, or straight out of the box, it may not seem to hold its own.

Both the DF-69 and the Godoy incorporate really high quality wood, which isn't much of a surprise considering the Martinez team includes someone whose name escapes me right now, but who is manic about acquiring top quality woods from around the world. I expect that most of the price difference between the two guitars is made up by the double top vs a solid top, and perhaps the inlays of mother of pearl and the sound ports (which are customisable for shape and size) on the Godoy. Also, going back to my experience of the Godoy, to give you a sense of what it is and does, let me say it sounded not that dissimilar to the Kenny Hill Signature that Johannes used to play earlier, in his pre-Martinez days. Loud, balanced, responsive - but in my view, a bit lacking in colour and 'personality'. Which isn't so surprising either, considering it came at least in part from the Hill drawing board.
Thanks for the info! That's a really interesting comment. I myself am thinking of buying a Godoy III - however surprise it's a single top spruce! Sounds like it will actually be almost DF-69 like... which might make me wonder why I get it instead of the DF-69 :roll:
In fact it might even not be as good, as you were saying that it lacks in colour, or say something like a tone of it's own (like the old Spanish guitars that everyone reveres! Cue for Torres...). Have you ever tried one of those single top Godoy III?
Any time. I have not played a Godoy solid top, no, though a quick search just showed me that they sell the same guitar model with double top and solid top. Given the provenance of the Martinez lineup, I'd expect it to be much like a higher end Hill solid top (though this is purely conjecture on my part). To be honest, unless you're especially keen on mother-of-pearl inlays and/or Kenny Hill's own building philosophy in a major way, and as long as you're okay with good projection without wanting maximum volume over tone, for a top drawer instrument at a relatively bargain price, I'd recommend the DF-69 spruce or even the spruce/maple Hauser over any of the Godoy lineup. Anyway, whatever you pick at that level or upwards is going to be a lot of fun to own and play, I'm quite sure. :)
'haatha' yoga

llch
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by llch » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:22 am

Yogi Ponappa wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:31 am
llch wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:04 am
Yogi Ponappa wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:50 pm


Hi - yes, the Godoy III I tried out was Johannes' own instrument, i.e. the spruce double top. Between it and the DF-69, I wouldn't say either guitar is better or worse, in that both are loud, powerful, and balanced. I'd say the sound differences between them are that the Godoy 3 is louder than the DF-69, and that the DF-69 sounds richer, be it spruce or cedar topped. As one might expect of a spruce solid top, a new DF-69 spruce top won't sound its best straight out of the store, and will gain power and tone over its first few months/first year, so in an initial playing comparison in a store, or straight out of the box, it may not seem to hold its own.

Both the DF-69 and the Godoy incorporate really high quality wood, which isn't much of a surprise considering the Martinez team includes someone whose name escapes me right now, but who is manic about acquiring top quality woods from around the world. I expect that most of the price difference between the two guitars is made up by the double top vs a solid top, and perhaps the inlays of mother of pearl and the sound ports (which are customisable for shape and size) on the Godoy. Also, going back to my experience of the Godoy, to give you a sense of what it is and does, let me say it sounded not that dissimilar to the Kenny Hill Signature that Johannes used to play earlier, in his pre-Martinez days. Loud, balanced, responsive - but in my view, a bit lacking in colour and 'personality'. Which isn't so surprising either, considering it came at least in part from the Hill drawing board.
Thanks for the info! That's a really interesting comment. I myself am thinking of buying a Godoy III - however surprise it's a single top spruce! Sounds like it will actually be almost DF-69 like... which might make me wonder why I get it instead of the DF-69 :roll:
In fact it might even not be as good, as you were saying that it lacks in colour, or say something like a tone of it's own (like the old Spanish guitars that everyone reveres! Cue for Torres...). Have you ever tried one of those single top Godoy III?
Any time. I have not played a Godoy solid top, no, though a quick search just showed me that they sell the same guitar model with double top and solid top. Given the provenance of the Martinez lineup, I'd expect it to be much like a higher end Hill solid top (though this is purely conjecture on my part). To be honest, unless you're especially keen on mother-of-pearl inlays and/or Kenny Hill's own building philosophy in a major way, and as long as you're okay with good projection without wanting maximum volume over tone, for a top drawer instrument at a relatively bargain price, I'd recommend the DF-69 spruce or even the spruce/maple Hauser over any of the Godoy lineup. Anyway, whatever you pick at that level or upwards is going to be a lot of fun to own and play, I'm quite sure. :)
Mind if you share where you found out that it has solid top model? I have been ravaging through the internet and so far I only have one source where it shows as solid top, which is the very guitar I'm buying. Definitely looking forward to having fun on the guitar - it's worth quite a lot of dough (I can afford 2-3 of my current Alhambra 5P with it) and expectations are sky high at the moment. Gonna be my first spruce too!

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Yogi Ponappa
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Re: Martinez guitars

Post by Yogi Ponappa » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:19 am

llch wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:22 am
Yogi Ponappa wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:31 am
llch wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:04 am

Mind if you share where you found out that it has solid top model? I have been ravaging through the internet and so far I only have one source where it shows as solid top, which is the very guitar I'm buying. Definitely looking forward to having fun on the guitar - it's worth quite a lot of dough (I can afford 2-3 of my current Alhambra 5P with it) and expectations are sky high at the moment. Gonna be my first spruce too!
Ah, sure - it's on a site called Max Guitar Store. It's the only link I saw that talks about a solid top Godoy 3, so I wonder if I just found the listing for the guitar you're buying. It sure does look like that's the only mention of a solid top Godoy 3, so in that case I'm wondering if it's just a case of the guitar listing being poorly informed and incorrect. In which case it's a double top, but a concert quality double top to be sure.
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