Classical guitar; audience?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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georgemarousi
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by georgemarousi » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:48 pm

@muirtan, I really wish it will work and people will embrace your concerts !
--Classicals--
Paulino Bernabe Especial 2009
Ramirez 1A 1980
Alhambra Luthier india 2012
Juan Martinez nr 55 (the return @2014)
Yamaha cg 110 (as a kid @88)
--
student again since 2015, to my degree @..? - God bless!

Salvador
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Salvador » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:49 pm

There are members here who also plays popular songs including me hehe. I also arrange cover songs. That's how i introduce them to classical guitar.

In my place only, i think they can embrace classical guitar music here. The only problem is the lack of classical guitar teachers. Most are acoustic guitar teachers and can't read notes. I wish i could teach but i don't think i have the patience and knowledge. So i just play.

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Rick Beauregard » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:20 pm

Interesting thread. Thanks for all the thoughtful comments.

We suffer from the overwhelming success of Segovia, and a handful of other virtuosi, in promoting the guitar as a "serious" concert instrument. His mission was to create repertoire, a pedagogy and to prove it belongs in the concert hall. By the time he died he succeeded on all these fronts and was drawing 2-3000 per concert every year in every major city in the world. The result is an overwhelming number of virtuoso guitarists whose skills outstrip these pioneers, as a result of better teaching and conservatory opportunities.

Are we saturated? I don't think so. What we need are young virtuosi who are similarly driven by a mission and able to use the technology of today, as Segovia pioneered recording technology through its numerous reincarnations. There are some out there who get it, most dabble in it. But social media is such an effective way to get more eyeballs and ear drums on classical guitar. They can't help but be enchanted, as we all were. The challenge is getting through the information overload.

How many were first attracted to CG by Steve Howe's "Mood for a day" crossover? Or hearing "Cavatina" in The Deer Hunter? Or discovered the uke hearing Iz play "Over the Rainbow", I forget which movie that was.

There is an upside. I had the opportunity to sit through a 2 week long masterclass with Segovia. It was, I thought, the opportunity of a life time, and met him personally. Today we have this kind of quality opportunity at our fingertips (NPI). The opportunity to meet personally players whose talents equal or likely exceed our former maestros, and to sit or play in master classes with teachers far more skilled at teaching than Segovia, is a weekly occurrence somewhere in our orbit. When you go, bring a few friends.
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malc laney
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by malc laney » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:38 pm

Did not Segovia point out that what took him months to work out , he could show in minutes.
The down side to some extent is that we now have factory produced "amazing" CG players [just like in the rock and jazz world] who have a restricted view of context ? where are the people getting the "Cavatinas" of the future , and being in Deep Purple ?

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Adrian Allan » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:46 pm

There are probably 100 times more great players now than there are opportunities to give recitals.

However, playing live is not the be-all and end-all.

The fact that great music and great playing is resonating around the walls of tens of thousands of rooms around the world can only be a good thing, even if it is only for the self fulfilment of the player.
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2handband
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by 2handband » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:00 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:There are probably 100 times more great players now than there are opportunities to give recitals.

However, playing live is not the be-all and end-all.

The fact that great music and great playing is resonating around the walls of tens of thousands of rooms around the world can only be a good thing, even if it is only for the self fulfilment of the player.
Spoken like someone who has not played live much. Playing live is the biggest high you can have.

I'm kinda stubborn with my CG. I'll throw some CG into an ordinary folksy acoustic gig, but I won't do the reverse... if I'm gonna give a classical guitar recital it's gonna be the real deal. No arrangements of pop tunes, no arrangements of Mozart. Classical guitar music only. I think it's because I do all those other gigs mostly tailored to what other people like, and I've got this thing in my head that the CG is for me.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Adrian Allan » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:54 pm

2handband wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:There are probably 100 times more great players now than there are opportunities to give recitals.

However, playing live is not the be-all and end-all.

The fact that great music and great playing is resonating around the walls of tens of thousands of rooms around the world can only be a good thing, even if it is only for the self fulfilment of the player.
Spoken like someone who has not played live much. Playing live is the biggest high you can have.

I'm kinda stubborn with my CG. I'll throw some CG into an ordinary folksy acoustic gig, but I won't do the reverse... if I'm gonna give a classical guitar recital it's gonna be the real deal. No arrangements of pop tunes, no arrangements of Mozart. Classical guitar music only. I think it's because I do all those other gigs mostly tailored to what other people like, and I've got this thing in my head that the CG is for me.
I used to play for years at restaurants and weddings etc on classical guitar. I have only played twice in a so-called "recital", outside of music exams, so I do know about playing live.

However, when the world is rich in great players and very few opportunities, I know my place. Plus I got bored of playing Cavatina at weddings.

Let's be realistic - if you are not in the top 0.1% of players, you are only going to get the odd church gig or money raiser playing classical guitar to a paying public in a very informal, infrequent and low-key "recital".
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2handband
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by 2handband » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:35 pm

Adrian Allan wrote: However, when the world is rich in great players and very few opportunities, I know my place. Plus I got bored of playing Cavatina at weddings.

Let's be realistic - if you are not in the top 0.1% of players, you are only going to get the odd church gig or money raiser playing classical guitar to a paying public in a very informal, infrequent and low-key "recital".
I know, sucks doesn't it? Right now I'm still getting my live fix (it is an addiction I HAVE to play live) doing other stuff while searching for a way to make classical performance viable.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Adrian Allan » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:50 pm

2handband wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote: However, when the world is rich in great players and very few opportunities, I know my place. Plus I got bored of playing Cavatina at weddings.

Let's be realistic - if you are not in the top 0.1% of players, you are only going to get the odd church gig or money raiser playing classical guitar to a paying public in a very informal, infrequent and low-key "recital".
I know, sucks doesn't it? Right now I'm still getting my live fix (it is an addiction I HAVE to play live) doing other stuff while searching for a way to make classical performance viable.
I don't know where you live, but this is certainly the situation in the UK.

Where would it be different - I'm not sure - maybe in one of the cultural capitals of the world, eg. Prague

In the UK, now that Bream and Williams have retired, there is no player in the world who would even sell enough tickets to hire a major concert venue of 1,000+ seats in the UK. Smaller venues like the Wigmore Hall in London would probably break even.
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2handband
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by 2handband » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:15 am

Adrian Allan wrote: I don't know where you live, but this is certainly the situation in the UK.

Where would it be different - I'm not sure - maybe in one of the cultural capitals of the world, eg. Prague

In the UK, now that Bream and Williams have retired, there is no player in the world who would even sell enough tickets to hire a major concert venue of 1,000+ seats in the UK. Smaller venues like the Wigmore Hall in London would probably break even.
I live in a town of 800 people, man. Last CG concert I attended was a 40 minute drive from here, in a town of 12,000 and it was AMAZING that it took place at all. There were no more than 20 people in that room, and I accounted for a significant percentage of it myself by bringing my two daughters and my girlfriend.

So yeah... I hear you.

hoppy
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by hoppy » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:30 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:In the UK, now that Bream and Williams have retired, there is no player in the world who would even sell enough tickets to hire a major concert venue of 1,000+ seats in the UK. Smaller venues like the Wigmore Hall in London would probably break even.
Not true. Milos (now injured but booked Royal Albert Hall - capacity 5,000) and Craig Ogden (RFH, 4 nights at RAH) fill 1,000+ seats. I saw Sean Shibe at Wigmore Hall at lunchtime and was probably 75% full for an up and comer. Laura Snowden gets decent venues too. Wigmore (capacity 550) regularly has classical guitarists. King's place (capacity 400) and st John's Smith Square (700 odd) also.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Adrian Allan » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:43 pm

hoppy wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:In the UK, now that Bream and Williams have retired, there is no player in the world who would even sell enough tickets to hire a major concert venue of 1,000+ seats in the UK. Smaller venues like the Wigmore Hall in London would probably break even.
Not true. Milos (now injured but booked Royal Albert Hall - capacity 5,000) and Craig Ogden (RFH, 4 nights at RAH) fill 1,000+ seats. I saw Sean Shibe at Wigmore Hall at lunchtime and was probably 75% full for an up and comer. Laura Snowden gets decent venues too. Wigmore (capacity 550) regularly has classical guitarists. King's place (capacity 400) and st John's Smith Square (700 odd) also.
Good point, but with Milos, the filling of the venue took the full might of the market industry to hyper-promote this young player, whose skills are light years behind those of David Russell, who would not be able to fill these venues. Plus, the marketeers had to use the word "Beatles" to make the concert more popular.

When marketing reaches saturation point (and make up for real, world class talent) in order to achieve a goal, I don't think it is a healthy situation at all.
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Lovemyguitar
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Lovemyguitar » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:46 pm

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, for those of you who bemoan the small audiences for classical guitar as if it is the only instrument to suffer this supposedly unhealthy, death-is-around-the-corner fate, you really ought to realise that the situation is no different for almost all small-scale classical music concerts (soloists and small chamber ensembles). As I have said previously, I frequently attend classical solo and chamber-music recitals, and there is usually anywhere from a few dozen to maybe 300-400 people in attendance. Symphonies and operas may get around 1500 people. Compare this to big-name pop/rock or country acts that come to my city, which can easily fill an arena with 15,000 (and sometimes a stadium of 50,000).

Another thing to realise is that many (countless, in fact) no-name pop/rock/country bands play in bars to a few dozen people (if that), or they play at weddings, or what-have-you, just like some of you guys with your CGs, and so if you aren't well-known, it doesn't really matter what kind of music you play, does it, you aren't going to be filling a huge hall.

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Non Tabius
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Non Tabius » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:46 pm

I believe its similar to a painter just going out into the country side and painting what ever makes him or her happy. That's how I see the cg.It a bit of a selfish instrument where one just drifts into this solo realm of total music fulfillment.Yet I find people whom I play to now and again seem to enjoy what I have to give them to the best of my ability.I do think one really has to be really tops though,in order to draw large audiences like John Williams, Manuel B and folks in that category.I have however been fortunate to play for large audiences as a backing muso for celebrity artists as well as dance gigs on electric guitar as well as Bass guitar most of my life.

I have sort of put that life behind me now and, just enjoy "painting" on the cg for the sake of music , whether two or ten enjoy it, doesn't matter at this stage of my musical life. still try and give my best, even though I can't see me playing for the crowds I used to play for doing covers and all that,getting home at three in the morning then up at seven to do the day job.Thank goodness for the cg ,no nagging producers and engineers play like this or like that to sell.

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eno
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by eno » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:39 pm

At the end of the day I think this audience problem is really not so important. It may be a concern for top professonals who make thier living on concerts, but for most of us who cares? We enjoy the CG and this is all that is important. Even most of the great performers actually make thier living mostly on teaching, concerts and CDs for them are to mostly to promote themselves and build the portfolio.
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