Classical guitar; audience?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
robinfw
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by robinfw » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:58 pm

This may be contentious, but to the dumbed down masses I don't care.
When I'm alone in the evening playing or practicing that is enough.
I'm happy.

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psmi
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by psmi » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:32 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
2handband wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote: ...
Where would it be different - I'm not sure - maybe in one of the cultural capitals of the world, eg. Prague.
..
.
No no, here in Prague the CG scene is small as everywhere else, although I am quite new in the field. I would say that only the concerts of Štěpán Rak are sold out,but the audience is not thousands.
Pavel Steidl do not give recitals so often, perhaps he prefers to perform abroad.

But! In January this year there was quite a big concert of Estas Tonne and it was crowded, perhaps five hundred people.
I know I know, it is not classical guitar, the sound is maybe too 'reverbish' and his technique not flawless... but there are so many people who love his music... so I am sure such guys can attract the people to guitar. I was the case,he helped me to convert from acoustic to classical ;)
Maybe a sin, but before I did not even know there was some Segovia or Bream :)
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Adrian Allan
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Adrian Allan » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:36 pm

psmi wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:
2handband wrote:

I know I know, it is not classic guitar, the sound is maybe too 'reverbish' and the technique not flawless... but there are so many people who like his music... so I am sure such guys can attract the people to guitar. I was the case,he helped me to convert from acoustic to classical ;)
Sin, but before I did not even know there was some Segovia or Bream :)
I think It is worth remembering that for people who are not immersed in the world of the classical guitar, it does sound rather boring.

For example, how often do people here attend string quartet recitals?

I have gone to a few, and due to my ignorance of the style, I found myself checking my watch a few times.
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muirtan
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by muirtan » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:46 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
psmi wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:

I know I know, it is not classic guitar, the sound is maybe too 'reverbish' and the technique not flawless... but there are so many people who like his music... so I am sure such guys can attract the people to guitar. I was the case,he helped me to convert from acoustic to classical ;)
Sin, but before I did not even know there was some Segovia or Bream :)
I think It is worth remembering that for people who are not immersed in the world of the classical guitar, it does sound rather boring.

Funny you find that whenever I've persuaded my pop loving friends to go a CG concert they've been converted, asking me to let them know when the next one is. That includes amateur and professional concerts.
Adrian Allan wrote:For example, how often do people here attend string quartet recitals?

I have gone to a few, and due to my ignorance of the style, I found myself checking my watch a few times.
I do whenever I can. When the players are good i get immersed in the music. That happens to me whatever genre but the performers must have something to say through the music.

hoppy
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by hoppy » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:15 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:Good point, but with Milos, the filling of the venue took the full might of the market industry to hyper-promote this young player, whose skills are light years behind those of David Russell, who would not be able to fill these venues. Plus, the marketeers had to use the word "Beatles" to make the concert more popular.

When marketing reaches saturation point (and make up for real, world class talent) in order to achieve a goal, I don't think it is a healthy situation at all.
Fair play - I'm not suggesting his popularity is similar to Bream etc but that there can be a large audience for CG - although I would argue, against my own point, that the Royal Albert Hall dates are probably more about the Rodrigo concerto ("arguably one of the most popular concertos of all time" - Gramophone) as they are about the artist. I doubt a solo Bach and Brouwer programme by said artists would do the same.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Adrian Allan » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:15 pm

hoppy wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:Good point, but with Milos, the filling of the venue took the full might of the market industry to hyper-promote this young player, whose skills are light years behind those of David Russell, who would not be able to fill these venues. Plus, the marketeers had to use the word "Beatles" to make the concert more popular.

When marketing reaches saturation point (and make up for real, world class talent) in order to achieve a goal, I don't think it is a healthy situation at all.
Fair play - I'm not suggesting his popularity is similar to Bream etc but that there can be a large audience for CG - although I would argue, against my own point, that the Royal Albert Hall dates are probably more about the Rodrigo concerto ("arguably one of the most popular concertos of all time" - Gramophone) as they are about the artist. I doubt a solo Bach and Brouwer programme by said artists would do the same.
I agree, that given the right marketing and programme, (ie Milos and Rodrigo), it does seem that a venue can sell out.

But as you say, now that there is no Segovia, Bream or Williams, I can't see anybody who plays a classical solo recital (as those players used to) selling out a major venue in the UK. This is a shame, as we all know that a player of the calibre of Barrueco can play better than Bream (when Bream was near the end of his career, at least) but who in the general public has heard of Barrueco?
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rg.2714
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by rg.2714 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:03 pm

For a long time I only learned classical guitar music. I used to play at a restaurant after about a month the owner said it wasn't what he was looking for he said "what you play is not really what people listen to these days" after that I started to learn more contemporary music. Just finished queens crazy little thing called love and Bohemian rhapsody and I do some of my own transcriptions. Now I have for about an hour or contemporary music and also some flamenco and jazz and boss's Nova in my repertoire. People seem to enjoy it. I still occasionally learn some classical guitar music but I do miss concentrating fully on classical guitar repertoire. But oh well.. one has to adapt to the world we live in.

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Steve O
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Steve O » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:06 pm

I enjoy playing classical guitar, but I find classical guitar concerts BORING to watch. Bunch of boring songs that I don't know and an audience that is forbidden to take part in the concert. Heaven forbid if you accidently clap between movements or the player interacts with the audience. Of the 40-50 people in the audience there's the inevitable freaky guy in the front row, the bunch of weird snobs in the middle, and a few normal people scattered amongst the people who are there because they enjoy playing classical guitar themselves. p.s. I also love playing sports, but find watching sports absolutely boring.

Then there's the concerts where the repertoire is composed by the players, and my gosh I've never sat through such unendurable and boring material elsewhere. One concert in particular I attended in Estonia - I was well jet-lagged and snoozy to start with. There was a smattering of 30 people scattered around a beautiful concert hall, and 5 or 6 guitarists put on a show of their "northern" compositions. This stands out as a particularly horrible experience.

Another concert I attended was a duo of cello and guitar. The guitar is a particularly quiet instrument, but I was amazed that the player's weird breathing was much louder than his instrument. At least the setting was a beautiful church.

This post is a bit exaggerated, but it does express my observations and feelings of having attended about 10 classical guitar concerts in Canada and Eastern Europe.

On the other hand, most of the flamenco guitar concerts I've attended have been amazing, even if it's a solo performance. I've also attended "International Guitar Night" many times. This is a tour that brings together a quartet of guitarists with different guitar styles. There's usually one classical guitarist in the bunch and they play a set-list of their specialities in the first half then they jam with each other in the second half. This is always enjoyable.

rg.2714
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by rg.2714 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:04 pm

Since im a musician I've become sort of a music snob. I seem to only like music that has either very interesting melodies and harmonies or multiple interacting parts (counterpoint? Not sure if the term applies to modern music) and most people listen to extremely basic music these days... Most music people listen to is literally just a repeating beat on the background a simple melody (occasionally a somewhat interesting melody) and an actual creative part here and there. Every time my sister is listening to their music I think "if it was a law to have a basic understanding of how music works the music would be so much better these days" I just love being able to sit in a dark room with my headphones listening to every single little detail of a song and finding new parts I've never noticed before.

PeteJ
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by PeteJ » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:51 pm

It seems to me the problem is in the presentation. Some people like to listen to music sat still in a chair for an hour, but some would rather have a pint in their hand and the freedom to come and go or chat for a bit. If I were playing I'd explore the home concert scene which is doing well and suits the CG perfectly, and finding a residency in a lounge bar somewhere. To do this one needs to be a decent player but as a duet or trio one could probably get away with being in the top 50% rather than the top 1%, the gigs are easier, the audience appreciative and the odd bottle of wine is usually thrown in. The price is playing some popular music, but it doesn't have to be bad music.

To me the CG is almost the best instrument for gigging. Everyone likes it and it's not big or heavy. If only the effing thing was easier to play.

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lucy
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by lucy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:28 pm

PeteJ wrote:It seems to me the problem is in the presentation. Some people like to listen to music sat still in a chair for an hour, but some would rather have a pint in their hand and the freedom to come and go or chat for a bit. If I were playing I'd explore the home concert scene which is doing well and suits the CG perfectly, and finding a residency in a lounge bar somewhere. To do this one needs to be a decent player but as a duet or trio one could probably get away with being in the top 50% rather than the top 1%, the gigs are easier, the audience appreciative and the odd bottle of wine is usually thrown in. The price is playing some popular music, but it doesn't have to be bad music.

To me the CG is almost the best instrument for gigging. Everyone likes it and it's not big or heavy. If only the effing thing was easier to play.
Actually, what you describe is exactly how concerts used to be in the 18th century. The paying public did not sit quietly in reverence of the gifted performers. They talked, ate and drank. The concert format we are familiar with came about during the 19th century, at the same time as when good musicians/artists became socially elevated to being ones with special gifts/geniuses, rather than "master craftsmen". As amazing as it seems now, Bach was seen as just another craftsman, like a master mason, potter etc.

Perhaps, more musicians should be prepared to return to that way of doing things?
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by PeteJ » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:12 pm

Yes, Lucy, this is exactly what I was thinking.

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:19 pm

someone asked - why classical guitar audience is so small ( he meant live audience) world have changed. audiences moved to screens of computers and to their hi-fi systems. classical guitar is not just solo, but in some ways solitary, solitude instrument. many people love to listen it alone. it is nice to play for live audience but not so important as in the past. and if one creates nice music or nicely and unique interpret someones music and publish it on www - then audience there could find him...but certainly guitarists should get out of standard repertoire and play new and their own things. audiences not interested in endless repetition of something which played by everybody..except few (guitarists themselves) who watching it more like a sport, learning, judging and comparing same movements, technics and pieces, but for general audience it is just boring. and it is difficult for music itself to get out as a free and passionate expression of eternal spirit contained in each of us via this endless repetition ....
Last edited by AndreiKrylov on Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by glassynails » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:47 pm

As much as I love the cg and it's sound, I have to admit that it's very boring to sit and watch for more than a few minutes for me and I would suspect for most people. I'm always reluctant and slightly embarrassed to play for my family because even though some of them may beg me to play at times, I realize that after a minute or two they'll get bored. I think that in their minds they're thinking "That's what he makes all that fuss about? .... what a waste of time" or something like that. It may be unfounded, but that's how I feel.

Even if I was a top notch player I would be embarrassed to play in front of anyone, let alone a paying audience! I'd feel that I was boring them and taking their money and that they'd be sitting there thinking "Geez I just wanna get outta here!". That's how I think, I can't help it, but I love the guitar and it's beautiful repertoire! I don't expect most people to appreciate it like I do.
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eno
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by eno » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:39 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:world have changed. audiences moved to screens of computers and to their hi-fi systems.
Exactly. I love listening to the guitar (and any other music) on my couch with my hi-fi headphones, relaxed and immersed into music and forgetful about the world around me. If I compare it with spending 1-2 hours to commute to a concert and back home, sitting in a crowded hall with many people in front of me where I can hardly see the performer, distracted by noise and coughing from other people then I just don’t see a compelling enough reason to go to a concert if I can listen to CDs of the same guitarist at home. Also for the price of one concert I can by 3-5 CDs.
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