Importing guitars to US

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
User avatar
eno
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:56 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Importing guitars to US

Postby eno » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:55 pm

I'm buying a guitar from EU and I just found that importing items to US containing Brasilian Rosewood harvested after 1997 is prohibited. How do I get the guitar through US customs? Do I need a proof that the Rosewood in the guitar was harvested before 1997? Anyone has any experience with customs clearing of imported guitars?
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Takamine C-128, Yamaha SLG200S silent, CompositeAcoustics steel-string, Fender Strat, Lineage MIDI

User avatar
lagartija
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9779
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Western Massachusetts, USA

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby lagartija » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:08 pm

Really, you can't bring it into the country without proof that the instrument was made before BR was CITES listed. It would be difficult to prove the wood was old if the guitar is recently built.
It is the same as trying to bring in ivory or tortoise shell. It is prohibited entry because it is a critically endangered species. Pick a guitar without this wood in it.
Certification is difficult because if the wood really *is* old, the chances are it lacks the paper trail needed to prove it. People didn't keep the receipts as standard procedure back then.
When the sun shines, bask.
__/^^^^^o>
Classical Guitar forever!

User avatar
eno
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:56 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby eno » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:28 am

Thanks Lagartija. So sounds like one shoud totally avoid buying old BR guitars from outside of US.
But even if it's made of Indian Rosewood I still need to proove to the customs that it's not Brazilian.

Actually there is a new law in place from Jan 2017 regulating the import of ANY Rosewoodand the seller will need to provide a CITES certificate even for the instrument to leave the country of seller. So now with the new law I guess it's easier for the buyer as long as the seller can obtain the certificate.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Takamine C-128, Yamaha SLG200S silent, CompositeAcoustics steel-string, Fender Strat, Lineage MIDI

User avatar
lagartija
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9779
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Western Massachusetts, USA

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby lagartija » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:18 pm

Yes , having the seller provide a certificate does make it easier for the buyer, but I have noticed that some sellers don't want to go through the bother and will not sell to someone where that would be required.
When the sun shines, bask.
__/^^^^^o>
Classical Guitar forever!

User avatar
bear
Posts: 3403
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:55 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby bear » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:46 pm

Haven't moved rosewood across the border but I've moved a lot of horses. Sometimes I been waved through and sometimes I've had to unload each and every horse with each piece of paper scrutinized.
It can depend on who's manning the gate. If it we me, I wouldn't import anything that even resembled any kind of rosewood (even if it's just stained) and that includes bridge, fretboard and the wooden knobs on the tuners.
I once brought a horse across that had a blaze. The blaze didn't match the drawing on the papers. The inspector was a real ....
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Guistina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce

User avatar
eno
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:56 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby eno » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:01 pm

Bear, Rosewood should not be a problem as long as it's all declared and the CITES certificate is issued by the exporting country.

OK, I'm still going to try, this guitar is Indian Rosewood. The seller applied for the CITES certificate in his country, we will see what happens next. It's a new law and new process just started in Jan this year internationally.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Takamine C-128, Yamaha SLG200S silent, CompositeAcoustics steel-string, Fender Strat, Lineage MIDI

User avatar
bear
Posts: 3403
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:55 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby bear » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:34 pm

eno wrote:Bear, Rosewood should not be a problem as long as it's all declared and the CITES certificate is issued by the exporting country.

OK, I'm still going to try, this guitar is Indian Rosewood. The seller applied for the CITES certificate in his country, we will see what happens next. It's a new law and new process just started in Jan this year internationally.


Hope they wave you thru.
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Guistina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce

ChristianK
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:45 pm
Location: Vienna, VA

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby ChristianK » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:58 pm

I recently purchased an older guitar and imported to USA from UK. The dealer, Kent Guitar, applied for CITES export permit which took a couple of weeks if I recall. Indian Rosewood is considered an Appendix II species and in the US you do not have to apply for a matching import permit. The guitar sat in Nashville in customs for a week but was finally delivered with no issues.

OP, this should be same process for you as long as your seller in EU receives the CITES export permit. Good luck.

Laudiesdad69
Posts: 670
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:01 pm

I just had a rosewood guitar come in January. There was no cites permit on it and it sat in customs for a week. But, eventually it was let through. There is an exemption for non Brazilian rosewood for certain items like guitars based on weight. It's something ridiculous like 10kg. As my guitar didn't weigh anything close to that I guess they let it through. I had purchased the guitar on the Bay on December 29, and it didn't ship until Jan 3, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Jabberwocky
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:46 am

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby Jabberwocky » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:14 pm

In another guitar forum, a buyer in the US imported a used Gibson Les Paul with an EIRW fretboard from a Japanese retailer recently. The Japanese retailer applied for a CITES export permit ftom Japan's CITES agency. It took 13 days for the permit to be granted. The Gibson LP was cleared by US Customs in a day. The US buyer did not apply for a US CITES import permit. There was no CITES export permit with his Gibson when he received it. So, it was kept either by Japan Customs or US Customs.

A pattern is emerging.

User avatar
lagartija
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9779
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Western Massachusetts, USA

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby lagartija » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:16 pm

Jabberwocky wrote:In another guitar forum, a buyer in the US imported a used Gibson Les Paul with an EIRW fretboard from a Japanese retailer recently. The Japanese retailer applied for a CITES export permit ftom Japan's CITES agency. It took 13 days for the permit to be granted. The Gibson LP was cleared by US Customs in a day. The US buyer did not apply for a US CITES import permit. There was no CITES export permit with his Gibson when he received it. So, it was kept either by Japan Customs or US Customs.

A pattern is emerging.


An export/import permit is a one time use document, as I understand it. It seems to be the same as an export license, except that it is granted by the CITES authorities rather than through the Department of Commerce (as called in the US). When you come through Customs, you fill out a declaration form. You give it to the Customs agent, who stamps it approved with the date and puts it in a pile. You don't get it back. Thus it would be the same for your paperwork (including CITES permit) when your rosewood item enters the country. That form becomes part of the import paperwork.
When the sun shines, bask.
__/^^^^^o>
Classical Guitar forever!

Laudiesdad69
Posts: 670
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby Laudiesdad69 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Oh, so that is why I didn't see any documents with the guitar? I was in correct in assuming we had to have the original paperwork with the guitar and it followed the guitar. I thought we had to have that paperwork if we were to sell from the US to someone out side the country. Is it that whoever sells it outside the us has to get a permit to export? Yes, there's a reason why I'm not a lawyer he he. I'm just a lowly oxygen boy...

User avatar
eno
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:56 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby eno » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:42 pm

lagartija and all, look at item 15 (page 7) of this document. You will need all copies of CITES export certificates and the proof of chain of custody if you ever plan to re-export it. The US customs will take the original certificate away but anyone who buys from outside US should ask the seller to provide him a copy of the cerfitifacte.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Takamine C-128, Yamaha SLG200S silent, CompositeAcoustics steel-string, Fender Strat, Lineage MIDI

decamara
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:00 am

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby decamara » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:15 pm

I have a sneaking suspicion this is way some guitarists no longer tour beyond the US

Imagine having to deal with this crap

Especially coming back to the US

Cites
Or not

Just sad

tbeltrans
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:36 pm
Location: Twin Cities

Re: Importing guitars to US

Postby tbeltrans » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:46 pm

I recall when I played in a supper club trio back in the late 70s, going from the US into Canada through Customs, they would make a list of all our equipment with serial number. We had to leave a deposit that represented a certain percentage of the total value of the equipment. Coming back across the border, we had to go through the same Customs point to get rechecked. If any of the equipment was missing, they assumed it was sold and therefore kept the deposit. If all the equipment on their list was still in our possession, we got the deposit back. As I recall, it was equally a hassle for Canadian musicians to come to the US and later return to Canada. I have no idea what issues there might be for musicians in this situation today. I got out of that line of work and moved on, not because of these issues, but the constant touring lifestyle just wasn't for me.

Later, in the 90s, I had to bring some computer boards into England. The Customs folks were having a strike, so it took a LONG time to get the stuff through Customs. There were British attorneys (called "Solicitors") at the airport who specialized in these kinds of things just waiting to help us through these issues. :)

Going across borders just seems to have its issues. I can't imagine what it must be like having the excitement of a new guitar purchase and then the worry about the instrument making it safely through these kinds of issues.

Tony


Return to “Public Space”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], daryl993manggip, Erik Zurcher, Henny, Laudiesdad69, LukeMarsden, MurrayK, zupfgeiger and 31 guests