Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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lucy
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by lucy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:12 pm

Peter Lovett wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:04 am
I think that criticism based on such things as, cedar/spruce, 6/10 strings, nails/no nails, Torres/Smallman guitars etc. can be dismissed as irrelevant, it is a personal preference. Criticism based on musical interpretation, performance, sound production quality, etc. have far more substance, especially if the maker has the intellectual chops to justify their view.
I agree, yet a large amount of the time people spend on here seems to be talking about these less relevant issues!

My theory is that it's symptomatic of Practice Avoidance Syndrome.
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tateharmann
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by tateharmann » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:51 pm

Oh no! Are we going to create one of these threads every month now??? Haha just kidding..

But seriously.

Anyways, in my opinion, the best way to create more tolerance for no-nail playing is to...well...play! Do some open mics, make some recordings, etc. I think that has more of an effect than talking it to death :)

My 2 cents.
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Isabelle Frizac
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by Isabelle Frizac » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:30 pm

tateharmann wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:51 pm
..../...

But seriously.

Anyways, in my opinion, the best way to create more tolerance for no-nail playing is to...well...play! Do some open mics, make some recordings, etc. I think that has more of an effect than talking it to death :)

My 2 cents.
+1)
I agree ! :ouioui:

:delcamp_ cool: :guitare:no-nail playing ! :bravo:
keep hope !
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hpaulj
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by hpaulj » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:03 pm

ddray wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:35 pm
....
Well, true. With a pianist it's pretty much understood that you're most likely not going to have a Steinway concert piano at home, unless you've made it and are wealthy. I don't know what sorts of discussions violinists, violists and cellists have. Maybe similar, maybe it's just a different world for me.
The other day I caught part of a documentary about a 'piano tuning competition`. I believe it was on a Japanese NHK cable feed (I'll try to look it up). Actually it was about a Yamaha team trying to break into the top tier of pianos at a prestigious piano competition. Apparently the contestants can choose what piano they play, and the piano manufacturers may tune the piano to suit the player's preferences.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/spec ... 80810.html
Held every 5 years, the International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition attracts the world's top young pianists vying fiercely for a chance at stardom. But for the 4 piano manufacturers who supply instruments for the contest, the event also provides a supreme opportunity for public exposure. How many pianists will select their piano to play? What instrument will the winner use? In the latest competition held in the autumn of 2015, the fates of the instrument makers rested with company piano tuners who were nearly all Japanese. All of them had to overcome a series of challenging problems. Who was victorious?

ddray
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by ddray » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:12 pm

hpaulj wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:03 pm
ddray wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:35 pm
....
Well, true. With a pianist it's pretty much understood that you're most likely not going to have a Steinway concert piano at home, unless you've made it and are wealthy. I don't know what sorts of discussions violinists, violists and cellists have. Maybe similar, maybe it's just a different world for me.
The other day I caught part of a documentary about a 'piano tuning competition`. I believe it was on a Japanese NHK cable feed (I'll try to look it up). Actually it was about a Yamaha team trying to break into the top tier of pianos at a prestigious piano competition. Apparently the contestants can choose what piano they play, and the piano manufacturers may tune the piano to suit the player's preferences.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/spec ... 80810.html
Held every 5 years, the International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition attracts the world's top young pianists vying fiercely for a chance at stardom. But for the 4 piano manufacturers who supply instruments for the contest, the event also provides a supreme opportunity for public exposure. How many pianists will select their piano to play? What instrument will the winner use? In the latest competition held in the autumn of 2015, the fates of the instrument makers rested with company piano tuners who were nearly all Japanese. All of them had to overcome a series of challenging problems. Who was victorious?
Oh yeah, you know I really like Yamaha pianos...and you can get a 5' Yamaha grand for about 15k I believe. But there is a definite prejudice in favor of Steinway and Bösendorfer (which ironically is a Yamaha brand now, I think...if you can't beat 'em, absorb 'em).

Nonailsjon
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by Nonailsjon » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:23 pm

it does not matter how you catch and cook a fish as long as it's enjoyed by everyone!

ddray
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by ddray » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:48 pm

tateharmann wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:51 pm
Oh no! Are we going to create one of these threads every month now??? Haha just kidding..

But seriously.

Anyways, in my opinion, the best way to create more tolerance for no-nail playing is to...well...play! Do some open mics, make some recordings, etc. I think that has more of an effect than talking it to death :)

My 2 cents.
I'm not a pro, so official disapproval and heated Delcamp forum threads don't matter to me. :D I'll keep on with my short nails regardless. As will many many more, no doubt.

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by AndreiKrylov » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:27 pm

It is not a Predjudice and tunnel vision in music, it is just a normal human behaviour.
Humans are Religious by nature and always want and ready to believe and follow some leaders who somehow becoming Superhumans or God's like figures in all kind of areas of our existence. What one could do? Just ignore only religious and only "historical" approach in this kind of craft and first of all - to follow rational logic and philosophy. Seems easy? :) well...
Last edited by AndreiKrylov on Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd better speak by music...Please listen my guitar on most popular music streaming services on WWW. Thanks!

celestemcc
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by celestemcc » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:28 pm

ddray wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:09 pm
getting hung up on the sorts of things that you don't see among pianists for example (which is my frame of reference). Things like, what luthier made that? Rosewood or mahogany, spruce or cedar? What strings do you use? Oh no, not D'Addarios!!! Are my nails long enough? Am I using the proper file? An elevated fretboard is a must...how high should the footstool be? Should I hold my foot this way or that way? Should I wear leather pants so the guitar doesn't slip? and on and on.
Try talking to mandolinists some time! :D
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Andrew Pohlman
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:48 pm

My Master Instructor, Ben Barron, is a protege of Rey de la Torre. That school of thinking is a fairly radical departure from Segovia and many other military drill sergeant type teaching methods.

The first concept is that there cannot be an adversarial relationship between teacher and student. This may seem common place now, but was a "modern" concept in the day of del Torre.

Also from this school, Ben has a technique of watching how I play a passage, then he reproduces what I did. We can then discuss the advantages and disadvantages of my technique. The del Torre theory is that the individual must find a way it make it work - there is no single way that fits everybody - quite the opposite from the Segovia theory - there are many ways to do things well.

I see also "tunnel vision" in the form of players being highly resistant to buck tradition, as if our ancestors had the best answers. :roll:

Just my humble perspective.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:30 pm

Andrew Pohlman wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:48 pm
My Master Instructor, Ben Barron, is a protege of Rey de la Torre. That school of thinking is a fairly radical departure from Segovia and many other military drill sergeant type teaching methods.

The first concept is that there cannot be an adversarial relationship between teacher and student. This may seem common place now, but was a "modern" concept in the day of del Torre. ...
My only experience of de la Torre is his edition of the Carcassi Studies, pub Orphee, and I must say it strikes me as a remarkably modern way of thinking overall.
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Smudger5150
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Re: Predjudice and tunnel vision in music

Post by Smudger5150 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:23 pm

lucy wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:12 pm
Peter Lovett wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:04 am
I think that criticism based on such things as, cedar/spruce, 6/10 strings, nails/no nails, Torres/Smallman guitars etc. can be dismissed as irrelevant, it is a personal preference. Criticism based on musical interpretation, performance, sound production quality, etc. have far more substance, especially if the maker has the intellectual chops to justify their view.
I agree, yet a large amount of the time people spend on here seems to be talking about these less relevant issues!

My theory is that it's symptomatic of Practice Avoidance Syndrome.
:lol: Totally agree. Worse still is being drawn into reading what everyone else is talking about and realising afterwards that important playing time has slipped through your fingers, so to speak.
"Music washes away the dust of every day life." Art Blakey

"If I don’t practice for a day, I know it. If I don’t practice for two days, the critics know it. And if I don’t practice for three days, the public knows it." Louis Armstrong

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