GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Luis_Br
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Location: Brazil

GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Luis_Br » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:46 am

GuitarCoop is also promoting New Music for guitar. In association with Julian Bream Trust they are releasing some premiere recordings.
The first release is Julian Anderson's Catalan Peasant with Guitar performed by Laura Snoweden.
I don't know if I can post a direct link. Here Fabio Zanon talks about the piece and you can find the link to the performance at GuitarCoop's channel:


Youtube

Adrian Allan
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:56 am

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Adrian Allan » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:04 pm

I had a good long listen....

:cafe:

"Yawn"

Let's put it this way, if I were a critic I might diplomatically say "diffilcult to assimilate on first hearing".

Rasqeo
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:51 am

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Rasqeo » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:09 pm

If I were a critic I might undiplomatically say "pretentious twaddle".

Adrian Allan
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:56 am

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Adrian Allan » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:24 pm

Rasqeo wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:09 pm
If I were a critic I might undiplomatically say "pretentious twaddle".
agreed 100%

Now put on your body armour and await the inevitable backlash

There are fans of this style:
wc1.jpg
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Kjetil Heggelund
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Location: Hønefoss, NORWAY

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Kjetil Heggelund » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:39 pm

I'm glad that Luis_Br posted this! Thank-you :-) Always surprised that people who don't like contemporary music have to start with negative remarks. This piece is really not that fantastically difficult music. Modern music has been around for over 100 years. The composer is well respected and at least I am happy and thankful that he wrote for guitar!
Kevin Aram "Torres", 2009
Stephan Schlemper "Transparence", 2015
Whatever you can do to have a good time, let's get on with it so long as it doesn't cause a murder...FZ

Rasqeo
Posts: 320
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Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Rasqeo » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:40 pm

I do like quite a lot of contemporary music but this just did nothing for me at all. Actually no that's not true it did did do something - it grated on my nerves! I also nearly laughed out loud at some of the performer's gesticulations. Was she hearing a different piece or something?

It just came across to me as completely affected and pretentious in the worst possible way. Sorry to be so harsh but presumably people get paid to do this.

Kjetil Heggelund
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Location: Hønefoss, NORWAY

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Kjetil Heggelund » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:42 pm

My wife hasn't complained.
Kevin Aram "Torres", 2009
Stephan Schlemper "Transparence", 2015
Whatever you can do to have a good time, let's get on with it so long as it doesn't cause a murder...FZ

markworthi
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Location: Forest Hills, NY

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by markworthi » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:43 pm

Rasqeo wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:09 pm
If I were a critic I might undiplomatically say "pretentious twaddle".
Why "pretentious"? I can understand not liking something-- this composition isn't really my thing, either-- but why pretentious?

markworthi
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Location: Forest Hills, NY

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by markworthi » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:48 pm

Rasqeo wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:40 pm
I do like quite a lot of contemporary music but this just did nothing for me at all. Actually no that's not true it did did do something - it grated on my nerves! I also nearly laughed out loud at some of the performer's gesticulations. Was she hearing a different piece or something?

It just came across to me as completely affected and pretentious in the worst possible way. Sorry to be so harsh but presumably people get paid to do this.
Again, "affected" and "pretentious" imply insincerity of some sort, either on the part of the composer or the performer. I just don't see it that way.

Adrian Allan
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Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Adrian Allan » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:56 pm

markworthi wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:43 pm
Rasqeo wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:09 pm
If I were a critic I might undiplomatically say "pretentious twaddle".
Why "pretentious"? I can understand not liking something-- this composition isn't really my thing, either-- but why pretentious?
The definition of pretentious is

"attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed"

The explanation by Fabio Zanon is full of effusive praise for a piece that offers melody, poetry, drama and whatever else he finds to mention in this wonderful piece of music. However, to my uneducated ears (having played the guitar for 35 years), and countless others, it all pretty random sounding noise and special effects.

If I messed around on the guitar for 13 minutes in a fairly random manner and then took the time to write it down - the result would be identical; or should I say, identically boring and unmusical.

So, following the dictionary to the letter, he has given the music a greater merit and importance than it really deserves.

Rasqeo
Posts: 320
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Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Rasqeo » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:58 pm

markworthi wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:43 pm
Rasqeo wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:09 pm
If I were a critic I might undiplomatically say "pretentious twaddle".
Why "pretentious"? I can understand not liking something-- this composition isn't really my thing, either-- but why pretentious?
Well for a start there's the title, which suggests the piece is worthy of sharing its name with a work by Miro. Then there's the liberal use of gimmicky effects and dynamics which appear to be done purely for their own sake. And that's to say nothing of the fact that in 15 minutes it appears to go absolutely nowhere. Compare it to something like Britten's Nocturnal which is everything a modern piece should be - thematically unified with a genius sense of pace and intensity and not a single note wasted.

markworthi
Posts: 249
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Location: Forest Hills, NY

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by markworthi » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:10 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:56 pm

Why "pretentious"? I can understand not liking something-- this composition isn't really my thing, either-- but why pretentious?
The definition of pretentious is

"attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed"

The explanation by Fabio Zanon is full of effusive praise for a piece that offers melody, poetry, drama and whatever else he finds to mention in this wonderful piece of music. However, to my uneducated ears (having played the guitar for 35 years), and countless others, it all pretty random sounding noise and special effects.

If I messed around on the guitar for 13 minutes in a fairly random manner and then took the time to write it down - the result would be identical; or should I say, identically boring and unmusical.

So, following the dictionary to the letter, he has given the music a greater merit and importance than it really deserves.
[/quote]

By that rather narrow definition, regardless of its source, anyone who makes a serious attempt at creating a work of art (and this is usually done with the intent of impressing) but who falls short would be deemed "pretentious". And the question of whether or not it has greater importance or merit than it actually possesses is entirely subjective. As I say, this piece of music doesn't appeal to me; but some people have already commented positively, demonstrating that the "pretentious" label is problematic.

markworthi
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:33 pm
Location: Forest Hills, NY

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by markworthi » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:15 pm

Rasqeo wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:58 pm
markworthi wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:43 pm
Rasqeo wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:09 pm
If I were a critic I might undiplomatically say "pretentious twaddle".
Why "pretentious"? I can understand not liking something-- this composition isn't really my thing, either-- but why pretentious?
Well for a start there's the title, which suggests the piece is worthy of sharing its name with a work by Miro. Then there's the liberal use of gimmicky effects and dynamics which appear to be done purely for their own sake. And that's to say nothing of the fact that in 15 minutes it appears to go absolutely nowhere. Compare it to something like Britten's Nocturnal which is everything a modern piece should be - thematically unified with a genius sense of pace and intensity and not a single note wasted.
In other words, the composer fell short of his own aspiration. Still, the ascription of "affectation" or "pretense" is a bit too much. Just my thoughts-- I usually agree with your opinions here Rasqeo, but this time, no. And the only reason I've bothered to butt into this conversation is that I think we should err on the side of being a little indulgent of risky choices that just don't work out when it comes to guitar composition.
Last edited by markworthi on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rasqeo
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:51 am

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by Rasqeo » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:18 pm

I'm certainly not trying claim what I have said is anything but my opinion. But I don't agree with you that the question of a work's merit is "entirely subjective".
If that were the case the work's of Lady Gaga would be on a par with those of Beethoven. I'm going to stick my neck out and predict this piece will not become a classic of modern guitar repertoire in the same way as Britten's Nocturnal or Walton's Bagatelles etc.

markworthi
Posts: 249
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Location: Forest Hills, NY

Re: GuitarCoop New Music for Guitar with Julian Bream Trust

Post by markworthi » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:20 pm

Rasqeo wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:18 pm
I'm certainly not trying claim what I have said is anything but my opinion. But I don't agree with you that the question of a work's merit is "entirely subjective".
If that were the case the work's of Lady Gaga would be on a par with those of Beethoven. I'm going to stick my neck out and predict this piece will not become a classic of modern guitar repertoire in the same way as Britten's Nocturnal or Walton's Bagatelles etc.
:D Okay, you got me there.

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