What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
MarkInLA
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What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by MarkInLA » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:45 pm

Hi. I own a Cordoba C10. I believe I could use a neck angle change. My saddle has only about 3/32" high above the bridge wood. I want the action lower but filing the saddle down even more will put the strings that much closer to the bridge and will wind up with little to no saddle height at all (= no break angle)..Perhaps I may be able to tighten the truss rod a tad. But the relief/bow looks near perfect as it is. Does anyone know who does this work in or near Los Angeles ? My guess is a cost of $100-$200.00. Any dibbs ? Thanks, Mark

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Peter Frary
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Peter Frary » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:08 am

Of course a neck reset is only practical on guitars assembled with water soluble glue. It's a labor intensive job with heat and steam to soften the glue on the neck joint and all the prying and wiggling to get the darn neck off. Often they have to drill holes in the fingerboard to get steam in there and add shims to get the neck angle right. I've never had it done but my luthier buddy charged around $700 many years ago. And sometimes the frets will need to be leveled after all that. So it might be better to buy a new guitar or live with it.
I play a Cordoba Mini so I look taller on stage!

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Michael.N.
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Michael.N. » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:59 am

Forget the truss rod, it's not there to correct neck angle issues. I'm not sure what neck joint the Cordoba employs but If it's a Spanish heel joint there isn't going to be a neck removal either. There are some options but they will cost a lot more that $200 from any competent professional. Pulling the frets, planing the fretboard is the cheapest method but you may not gain very much from that. Other methods involve adding another fretboard or removing the fretboard entirely, then the cost really begins to climb. Maybe just go with bridge beads and accept that the saddle projection isn't going to be much. There's a lot to said for Stauffer (or other) adjustable necks. We've all been conned into thinking that the Spanish heel joint is the ultimate - by the silly tone police. It's nonsense of course.
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rinneby
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by rinneby » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:32 am

There are many options. How old is the C10?

/J
1965 - Masaru Kono No.5
1975 - Atushi Nakamura No.15
1977 - Kuniharu Nobe No.15
1987 - Curt Claus Voigt
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

simonm
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by simonm » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:23 am

Neck resets are not that common on classical guitars compared to American style steel string guitars (Martins etc and clones).

What is the height of the strings over the top just in front of the bridge?
What is the current action at the 12th?

beanctr
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by beanctr » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:04 pm

What is the action now. If its in spec you would be better off selling the guitar and buying something else. You could spend $1,000 doing neck adjustments on a classical guitar. R
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Alan Carruth
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Alan Carruth » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:09 pm

Frank Ford has a method for correcting the neck angle on 'affordable' Classical guitars with Spanish heels. He runs a thin saw down the base of the heel up to the bottom of the fingerboard, opening up a small gap. Then he drills a hole in the heel, and installs a strap button, using a long screw. This pulls the heel in and brings the neck angle down, yielding a taller saddle. Obviously you don't do this on a Fleta or Hauser 1!

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Steve Ganz
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Steve Ganz » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:26 pm

Alan Carruth wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:09 pm
Frank Ford has a method for correcting the neck angle on 'affordable' Classical guitars with Spanish heels. He runs a thin saw down the base of the heel up to the bottom of the fingerboard, opening up a small gap. Then he drills a hole in the heel, and installs a strap button, using a long screw. This pulls the heel in and brings the neck angle down, yielding a taller saddle. Obviously you don't do this on a Fleta or Hauser 1!
Interesting Al. This may save some guitars, but consider how it will deform the fingerboard at the body joint... and what would be required to deal with that !

It's difficult to respond to queries like this, but I have to say this: The price is what your (local) repair person says it is after assessing the situation. If a neck reset is recommended, I'd say that 100-200 is too little for a neck reset in 2017.
Steve

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Michael.N.
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Michael.N. » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:08 pm

At $200 anyone would be a fool to take a neck reset on, even if it was a matter of pulling the frets and planing the fretboard. It's not only the time involved, the business costs but there's always the risk of accidentally damaging a customers guitar. It's just not worth it IMO. $200 just about gets you a refret.
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astro64
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by astro64 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:56 pm

That saddle distance above the wood seems entirely normal. Not worth a neck reset. If you are worried about the break angle, make a separate lower saddle and try it. If there is an issue, there is another way of tying the strings to the tie block to increase the angle, e.g. use some bridge beads.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:00 pm

I had a Ramirez once that needed a neck reset. Luthier wanted a grand. It just wasn't worth it, having to deconstruct the guitar to fix it properly. I sold it back to the store where I bought it from, and cut my losses. It was like that when I bought it, and you could only use low tension strings on it otherwise. I now have the luthier check every guitar I buy now before hand.

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Peter Frary
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Peter Frary » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:47 pm

If the angle of the neck isn't too extreme and you merely need a few millimeters of saddle height reduction, you could reduce the height of the bridge to reveal more of the saddle for adjustments. Of course the center of bridge would lose all its finish. I saw Douglas Ching once reduce the bridge height on a troublesome guitar with a finger plane and reshape the contours perfectly by sight.
I play a Cordoba Mini so I look taller on stage!

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Michael.N.
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Michael.N. » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:27 am

Reducing the height of the bridge is only really necessary when you run out of saddle completely or the strings aren't clearing the ramps. It doesn't change the break angle. Of course we are all in the dark here because we've no idea on what the current action is , how much the action needs to be lowered, whether the break angle is sufficient or whether there is any problem with the neck angle.
The usual practice is to go with bridge beads and shave the bridge only if it's deemed necessary - which may well be the case. You consider the viability of the cheap simple things first. After that you then have to decide whether the guitar is worth the costly more invasive procedures.
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Tim W
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by Tim W » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:07 pm

I have an old, battered but cherished 1968 Contreras that had become unplayable as age caught up to it. It was a guitar that had no real resale value, but had great sentimental value, (I've had it since 1974), and a lovely tone. A luthier friend suggested a fix similar to Alan Carruths. It involved cutting through the heel with narrow bladed radial-arm saw while the guitar was clamped in a fixture, then making a second cut to square the gap, and inserting a slice of wood. It was glued in with epoxy and wood dust and is almost invisible. The guitar now plays wonderfully, the action and intonation is good, there is sufficient saddle and break angle. He charged me around $350. It also was re-fretted and the fingerboard trued, but that was coincidental to the neck repair. He has performed this frightening surgery on a number of high-end guitars of the same era, (Ramirez, Kohno, etc.).

SteveL123
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Re: What is the price range for a neck-angle reset job ?

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:48 pm

Alan Carruth wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:09 pm
Frank Ford has a method for correcting the neck angle on 'affordable' Classical guitars with Spanish heels. He runs a thin saw down the base of the heel up to the bottom of the fingerboard, opening up a small gap. Then he drills a hole in the heel, and installs a strap button, using a long screw. This pulls the heel in and brings the neck angle down, yielding a taller saddle. Obviously you don't do this on a Fleta or Hauser 1!
Did Frank Ford do a write up on this? The closest I've found is this article on resetting the neck on a B.C. Rich steel string. http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier ... eset2.html

Is the strap button's purpose just to hide the long screw head?

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