Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Urbanarcher11
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:02 pm
Location: UK/London/Greenwich

Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by Urbanarcher11 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:45 pm

Hi All,

I have been in the market recently looking for Classical Guitars, so have done the rounds of a couple of stores, yet I found myself as confused as ever.
So here is a question that I would like throw in here for some thoughts,... Do music stores have a rationale when displaying their guitars ?

What I seem to find is that either they display them by brands or by budget, but for some reason they do not display them by sound profile .. what they do is ask you if you have any brand in mind or your budget and then proceed to show you guitars,which you then assess and are supposed to choose. I just watched highly educational video on YouTube which compared English/French/Spanish guitars and explained the sound profile i.e Bass heavy or treble heavy, what music is suited to a spruce top or a cedar top, basically how does one identify the sound that attracted them to the classical guitar in the first place, this makes it so much easier for a person looking for a guitar who can then look for guitars within a price range in that sound profile. In fact I hardly find the vendors asking what kind of music I listen to or artists in an attempt to try and perhaps gauge what I am looking for ?

User avatar
zavaletas
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 9:51 pm
Location: Tucson

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by zavaletas » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:32 pm

We have videos may of all the guitars that come physically through our hands-- and we were among the first to provide sound samples. Having done this for years, what I can tell you is that is it very important that the sound samples be of professional quality-- made with first rate equipment and played by professional players. While there are some aspects of sound that one cannot here, such as volume or presence, such videos do provide a lot of information to the listener about the qualities of a guitar-- such clarity, richness, balance, and so on.
James, Zavaleta's La Casa de Guitarras

hackedpineapple
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:57 pm

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by hackedpineapple » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:04 pm

Would you mind posting a link to the video which you mention?

simonm
Amateur luthier
Posts: 6307
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:22 am
Location: Germany, Würzburg.

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by simonm » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:34 pm

hackedpineapple wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:04 pm
Would you mind posting a link to the video which you mention?
Just google Zaveletas guitars. Should find it in the first couple of links, then look at any guitar. In the UK Myles at Kent guitar classics also provides recordings of most guitars that go through his hands. I am sure many of the other online dealers do it as well. Reputable dealers will be able to group guitars for you in any way you like.

SteveL123
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:12 pm

Some dealers use reverb in recording their guitars that are for sale, some do not. Are the ones who do not use reverb considered more reputable?

User avatar
mike.janel
Posts: 653
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:55 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by mike.janel » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:39 pm

Sellers display guitars by price or brand, because it is easy objective and clear cut.
Sound or style is hard to describe, even subjectively.

It is the same as wine is mostly sorted by brand, price and grape type, rather than aromatic prifile.
French wines however, are sorted by the area they are produced, which relates to their taste. The reason this is possible, is because they keep to the same tradition.

If you take for example a Granada guitar. Would,you expect a specific sound profile?
I am not sure. It may be if the maker uses "treditiinal" style, but many makers in Granada area use all sorts of styles today.
Michael
-----------------------------------------------
2013 Amalio Burguet 3M (Cedar)
1989 Yamaha CG 110 (Spruce)

Urbanarcher11
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:02 pm
Location: UK/London/Greenwich

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by Urbanarcher11 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:57 pm

hackedpineapple wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:04 pm
Would you mind posting a link to the video which you mention?
The video I watched was called, Comparison of classical guitars, Spain V England V France - very informative, Miles from Kent guitars is the speaker.

Urbanarcher11
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:02 pm
Location: UK/London/Greenwich

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by Urbanarcher11 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:18 pm

zavaletas wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:32 pm
We have videos may of all the guitars that come physically through our hands-- and we were among the first to provide sound samples. Having done this for years, what I can tell you is that is it very important that the sound samples be of professional quality-- made with first rate equipment and played by professional players. While there are some aspects of sound that one cannot here, such as volume or presence, such videos do provide a lot of information to the listener about the qualities of a guitar-- such clarity, richness, balance, and so on.
Thanks for your response, yes I have looked up your site and also the videos.I do think you have an opportunity to improve,

Here is an idea for you or anyone that reads this - If you display a sound signature for example 5 versions of "Spanish Eyes" clip(or any other piece) then the person can choose guitars based on the sound of they like. A click on that sound clip will take them to the variety of guitars with varied prices but a sound profile closer to the introductory clips. Or your base the clips on a lineage of luthier school or country. A menu could lead visitors there or a hyperlinked graphic - hope you get the idea.

OldPotter
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:31 pm
Location: Channel Islands

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by OldPotter » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:27 pm

attempt to try and perhaps gauge what I am looking for ?
From the feedback I have read online and the experience of a friend, I would guess that Miles is one of the few that is able to do that. How far is Sevenoaks from you? Not all his guitars are expensive, but if you are looking for a particular type of sound then then you might need to pay more. From what I read here on the forum, its enjoyable just to visit. See kentguitarclassics.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

astro64
Posts: 641
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:43 pm
Location: American Southwest

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by astro64 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:37 pm

If you look at past discussions here, you will find that few would be able to agree what constitutes a particular sound profile. What is a spanish sounding guitar to one person may not be what it is to another. No one could agree on describing guitar sound with terms like dark, bright, boxy, woody, etc. Then you add to that the complexity of the recordings and what was done to them (compression, reverb, etc) and it becomes harder yet. Lastly, and most importantly, you add the particular performer (who may determine more than half of what a guitar will sound like compared to another player (listen e.g. to Julian Bream who played many different guitars in his recording career and always sound like Julian Bream). If you ask 20 people to classify 20 recordings into 4 sound classes (without even being able to agree on what it is that defines a particular sound class) you will get 20 different answers. In short, you'll have to do your own home work, you can't rely on opinions of others.

Urbanarcher11
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:02 pm
Location: UK/London/Greenwich

Re: Selling a guitar - Displaying guitars by a sound signature.

Post by Urbanarcher11 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:49 pm

astro64 wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:37 pm
If you look at past discussions here, you will find that few would be able to agree what constitutes a particular sound profile. What is a spanish sounding guitar to one person may not be what it is to another. No one could agree on describing guitar sound with terms like dark, bright, boxy, woody, etc. Then you add to that the complexity of the recordings and what was done to them (compression, reverb, etc) and it becomes harder yet. Lastly, and most importantly, you add the particular performer (who may determine more than half of what a guitar will sound like compared to another player (listen e.g. to Julian Bream who played many different guitars in his recording career and always sound like Julian Bream). If you ask 20 people to classify 20 recordings into 4 sound classes (without even being able to agree on what it is that defines a particular sound class) you will get 20 different answers. In short, you'll have to do your own home work, you can't rely on opinions of others.
Thanks for responding. I do agree, in fact I think at the more evolved level the sound profile comes more out of the artists rendition than anything else, my query is more from the perspective of someone at a very early stage of discovery I guess.

Return to “Public Space”