"It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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RobMacKillop
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"It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by RobMacKillop » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:46 pm

So, what do we think of Nigel North's statement towards the end of this short video?

Not only can you not escape your destiny, but you can't teach it to others...


Youtube

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:25 pm

Refusing to play for me, Rob; shame, I was looking forward to something a bit doom-laden for a Sunday evening ...
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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:31 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:25 pm
Refusing to play for me, Rob; shame, I was looking forward to something a bit doom-laden for a Sunday evening ...
search nigel north alicante on the tube Stephen - not too doom-laden - at least he keeps smiling

Pat Dodson
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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Pat Dodson » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:58 pm

Enjoyable short video. Thanks for posting Rob (and to Mark for the help locating it.)

Having spent 40 years in special needs education and 25 teaching trampolining at all levels from beginner to international, I am convinced there are some skills, understandings and sensitivities that cannot be wholly taught to everybody, no matter their motivation and application. However a skilled teacher can help an able, motivated and hardworking student a great deal on all these fronts.

That said, I don’t hold with the idea of destiny though it might indeed seem that way to the person concerned. Alongside our own efforts and those who help us, a great deal of serendipity, luck and presence or absence of tragedy is involved in much of how our lives are shaped.
Last edited by Pat Dodson on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Altophile » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:03 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:46 pm
So, what do we think of Nigel North's statement towards the end of this short video?

Not only can you not escape your destiny, but you can't teach it to others...

Probably largely correct if meant to apply to the greats, and if we mean 'destiny' in a soft sense (i.e. non-Calvinistic). I don't doubt that there are thousands, perhaps millions of people who don't play an instrument but who could if they chose to, but that doesn't mean they'd all have the capacity to be great players. I think you just have to have innate talent to be one of the greats, but folks with mediocre talent may be able to do quite well has hobbyists, players at wedding gigs, or music teachers, etc. But I don't think that just anyone can end up a John Williams!

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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:17 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:31 pm
Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:25 pm
Refusing to play for me, Rob; shame, I was looking forward to something a bit doom-laden for a Sunday evening ...
search nigel north alicante on the tube Stephen - not too doom-laden - at least he keeps smiling
Thanks :) seems its more of the good-thing destiny, and almost seems like he's talking about himself, though third person.
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Andrew Fryer
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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:20 pm


Youtube

People's understanding of the word destiny has changed much since Homer first said "it was his destiny (or he was fated) to...".
In early Greek thought destiny was only recognised as what had happened in the past. It wasn't until after a few hundred years of Chrisianity that it came to be about a future that you couldn't change.
I don't want to write an essay on it. Except to say I was amused by watching the Hobbit movies' commentaries last week - the director both asserted that Bilbo's clemency towards Gollum was linked to Gollum's destiny and also that the story was about free will!
Last edited by Andrew Fryer on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RobMacKillop
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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by RobMacKillop » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:35 pm

I have heard that he is or was associated with a religious sect, though certainly not Calvinism, and he might well be serious and exacting in his use of the word.

I've been teaching long enough to know that some people have a strong aptitude for learning music, though I would never go near the word destiny in any sense.

There is a beautiful irony in the video - he is being paid to teach students, while claiming they can't be taught, unless they can play already (due to their destiny), in which case they don't require his services!

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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:41 pm

And you will hear people say that Winston Churchill fulfilled his destiny, but you won't hear anyone say that Hitler fulfilled his. Why not? Because it's an artificial, literary concept that doesn't exist in real life.

You get people in forums denying there is any such thing as musical talent, but I disagree - I'd define virtuosity as eidetic muscle memory. Feeling is something different, of course.
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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Rasputin » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:08 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:41 pm
And you will hear people say that Winston Churchill fulfilled his destiny, but you won't hear anyone say that Hitler fulfilled his. Why not? Because it's an artificial, literary concept that doesn't exist in real life.
Yes but is the problem there really with 'destiny' or is it with 'fulfilled'. 'Hitler was destined to fail' sounds OK to me - I think it is just that if you say somebody 'fulfilled' their destiny it sounds as though they achieved what they set out to do.

What does it mean for a concept to exist in real life? Only that people grasp it and think in terms of it, I would have thought. Certainly not that it corresponds to something real, or there would be no such concepts, and the statement would be redundant. It seems to me that people the world over grasp the concept of destiny instinctively, so I think it is about as common and as natural a concept as you could possibly get. As with many superstitions that come naturally to us, we have to learn that it is false and abandon it - but it's still there deep down, and the many many stories which take it as theme can still resonate with us.

I think DN is just saying that some people are very drawn to music or to a particular instrument, which is pretty unobjectionable if you ask me. I certainly don't think he is saying that if you do happen to be drawn to it, you don't need tuition.

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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by DLMJ-1234 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:10 pm

He is without doubt the finest "flesh" plucker of our generation ....

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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:38 pm

Andrew will know--I think it's Sophocles who wrote "man's character is his fate", leaving a wonderful ambiguity--either a person's character ineluctably brings about what happens to them, or fate determines their character in advance, with the same result.

These impersonal forces that supposedly enable or destroy us without our knowing are not convincing to me. Astrology for example. Fate in modern history could only function as a way of taking God out of the equation while leaving an overarching, thoughtless but transcendent force still in control of our lives. Not an advance, imo.
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Pat Dodson
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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by Pat Dodson » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:44 pm

And perhaps Jeffrey that is about as close as we dare on this forum? Tempting fate? :lol:

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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by sxedio » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:46 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:35 pm
I have heard that he is or was associated with a religious sect, though certainly not Calvinism, and he might well be serious and exacting in his use of the word.

I've been teaching long enough to know that some people have a strong aptitude for learning music, though I would never go near the word destiny in any sense.

There is a beautiful irony in the video - he is being paid to teach students, while claiming they can't be taught, unless they can play already (due to their destiny), in which case they don't require his services!
Students to a certain extent need to be ready to receive what a teacher is teaching them. They need the teacher, but they also need to want to learn and be able to understand what they are getting from a teacher. This is not necessarily linked to the aptitude for music. Ideally you chose your teacher and do so in a very conscious way. Destiny I'm not so sure about, but people can definitely start from a similar place and follow very different trajectories.
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Re: "It's your destiny, and there's nothing you can do about it"

Post by cedartop » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:03 am

I am 2/3 through a fascinating book called The Talent Code. Highly recommended.
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