Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
MrF1
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Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by MrF1 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:33 am

Hey folks,

I'm not so much a classical guitarist. More of a fingerstyle guitarist who plays on nylon string guitars. I have a two nice classicals - a spruce and a cedar. I'd like to get a third guitar and I always try to get something with a different vibe. Hence the interest in a flamenco. If I give it a go, I'd like a blanca, since my two other guitars are rosewood. My budget is $2K-3K. Any suggestions from those of you who play on both classical and flamenco guitars?

Thanks in advance....

Tom Phillips
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by Tom Phillips » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:59 am

Cordoba flamenco guitars are pretty good. I assume you know not to use a classical guitar for flamenco music. Also, I recommend you buy a book called The Total Flamenco Guitarist by Juanito Pascual. It's very comprehensive.

Good luck!

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by rojarosguitar » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:08 am

Where are you living? I would try as many flamencas as possible because they are as different as classical guitars. Weithin your budget you should be able to find very good instruments. Recently I tried a Vicente Carillo Blanca in a shop in Madrid (around 2100€) and was a very nice luthier guitar. If you are in u.s. There are some pretty good flamenco makers as well.
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
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andreas777
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by andreas777 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:08 pm

MrF1 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:33 am
I have two nice classicals - a spruce and a cedar. I'd like to get a third guitar and I always try to get something with a different vibe. Hence the interest in a flamenco.
Do I understand it right you want to buy a flamenco guitar but you don't want to play flamenco music on it?
Happiness is when what you think what you say and what you do are in harmony.

MrF1
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by MrF1 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:17 pm

I do plan to learn some flamenco basics, but will also use the guitar for general fingerstyle pieces.

BTW...I pulled the trigger on a 2013 Hippner Barbero this weekend.

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andreas777
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by andreas777 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:05 pm

Congratulations for your Hippner Barbero! I've asked because a few years ago I also wanted to buy a flamenco guitar and only play some flamenco basics. Finally I've decided to buy a flamenco negra (HSL) so I can use for flamenco and classical pieces.
Happiness is when what you think what you say and what you do are in harmony.

bobotar100
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Location: Santa Cruz, California

Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by bobotar100 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:09 am

I started on classical, then went to finger style, and 20 years ago bought two Conde Hermanos blancas. Great guitars, a joy to play. As you say, a very different "vibe". I wish you great pleasure.

If you want to learn a few basic techniques, I can not recommend strongly enough that you find an experienced player/teacher; someone who can sit right in front of you and correct you on the spot. I've tried a couple local players who teach: not so good. I found another, who had been playing for 60 years and teaching for 40; a vast improvement.

MrF1
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by MrF1 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:31 am

bobotar100 wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:09 am
If you want to learn a few basic techniques, I can not recommend strongly enough that you find an experienced player/teacher; someone who can sit right in front of you and correct you on the spot. I've tried a couple local players who teach: not so good. I found another, who had been playing for 60 years and teaching for 40; a vast improvement.
Thanks so much, Bob.....sound advice. I did some preliminary research yesterday and could not find any local flamenco teachers. I live in the New Orleans area where we have plenty of very talented jazz and rock teachers, but I might have to do some more digging to find a flamenco instructor. I did order The Total Flamenco Guitarist book (thanks Tom Phillips!), which should get me started along with some online resources. I'm going to devote 2018 to developing a basic flamenco skill set.

bobotar100
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by bobotar100 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:47 pm

F1; It seems that the blanca would be a good tool for jazz as well as flamenco, particularly for more complex pieces.

I use a set of my late instructor's books, notation and tab. It's interesting to see how different each writer/composer/teacher illustrates the same technique. I'm in the San Francisco Bay region, and both San Francisco and San Jose have strong, if different, flamenco communities. My former instructor started in clubs in small towns outside Madrid, supporting singers and dancers, in the 1930's. He went on to touring the world with a couple different dancers before starting his own nightclub in San Francisco in the 1950s. He then got a solo contract with Capitol, and was doing concerts, rather than supporting dancers. By the time I met him, he had written books to support solo guitar work, based on traditional forms, which he found a more personally rewarding practice and which probably supported his teaching practice well. 20 years ago, when I shopped around for a second teacher, several local instructors did not approve of his technique because it was more "solo" oriented, removed from the support role. Their lives of purity must bring their own reward. I'm not a great player and have other interest as well, so have no dance troupe to support, and supporting an imaginary dancer in my living room would not be very satisfying. I still work on and struggle with the solo pieces and find it much more difficult to know if I'm "doing it right" without the instructor's encouragement and correction.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:45 pm

Online lessons (or rather tutorials, as these do not involve any interactive exchange) with Adam Del Monte or with some of the La Sonanta guys are excellent!
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents

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Cloth Ears
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by Cloth Ears » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:32 pm

I have a 2008 Vicente Carrillo Blanca in good condition, going for about £2k. PM if you are interested.

I presume the guitar you tried in Madrid @rojarosguitar was second hand or was it his 2A model new? Vicente charges much more for a 1A new!

steve f
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by steve f » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:16 pm

MrF1 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:33 am
Hey folks,

I'm not so much a classical guitarist. More of a fingerstyle guitarist who plays on nylon string guitars. I have a two nice classicals - a spruce and a cedar. I'd like to get a third guitar and I always try to get something with a different vibe. Hence the interest in a flamenco. If I give it a go, I'd like a blanca, since my two other guitars are rosewood. My budget is $2K-3K. Any suggestions from those of you who play on both classical and flamenco guitars?

Thanks in advance....
I came from a classical background and began studying flamenco guitar about 3 years ago. I played on an old Horabe model 35 classical for the first year and decided I was committed enough to invest in a flamenco guitar. After a lot of investigation, I decided to purchase a guitar made by Ethan Deutsch from Seattle. I could not be happier. My teacher has a wonderful Spanish made guitar and is extremely impressed. It's very light and responsive. It's got a beautiful tone for melodic passages and can get very raw and ballsy for the rhythm. Fit and finish are excellent as in intonation. The rosette is to die for! The peg heads are faux wooden pegs, machined to be very easy to use and stable. His prices have gone up a bit since I got mine but you may be able to find one used in your price range, or trade up which is what I did. Not sure if I should mention the shop I worked with but they were great. Send me a message if you want more info.

If you don't have a local teacher, see if you can find someone to give you lessons by Skype or Zoom. I tried learning from books for a long time and it did not work. Flamenco traditionally is passed down from teacher to student without notation. The notation is now useful but the direct instruction is essential.

Good luck in your search.
Olé!

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Cloth Ears wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:32 pm
I have a 2008 Vicente Carrillo Blanca in good condition, going for about £2k. PM if you are interested.

I presume the guitar you tried in Madrid @rojarosguitar was second hand or was it his 2A model new? Vicente charges much more for a 1A new!
Quite likely a 2A model. I wasn't aware that there are different models, as I had never heard the name before...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents

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Cloth Ears
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by Cloth Ears » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:29 pm

I think they go under the name 'Alegrias' model. Then the 1A is about 4000€ and the cross braced 'Pasion' model which I upgraded to is 5500€ and he does specials above that.

MrF1
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Re: Might take a walk on the flamenco side....

Post by MrF1 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:17 am

steve f wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:16 pm

If you don't have a local teacher, see if you can find someone to give you lessons by Skype or Zoom. I tried learning from books for a long time and it did not work. Flamenco traditionally is passed down from teacher to student without notation. The notation is now useful but the direct instruction is essential.

Good luck in your search.
Olé!
I'm a visual and auditory learner when it comes to guitar, so I'm pretty sure book study will provide limited results. I'm going to see if I can find a good flamenco instructor in the New Orleans area. If that doesn't workout, I'll go the online route, perhaps with Skype lessons or possibly Adam del Monte's video lesson program - studied that a bit and it looks pretty thorough, although it's not interactive.

Also, I should be receiving a 2013 Hippner Barbero blanca on Friday, so I'll be enjoying a new guitar weekend ahead!

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

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