Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

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DonaldSauter
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Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by DonaldSauter » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:28 pm

I've just updated my Gaspar Sanz page. It presents all the music in Libro 2 of his "Instruccion de Musica sobre la guitarra española" in easy-to-read modern tablature.

http://donaldsauter.com/gaspar-sanz.htm

Previously, I had offered Libro 2 in good-looking ASCII tablature. Now I've worked up everything in nicer-looking, ready-to-go pdfs. In addition to that, I've worked up versions for modern guitar with judicious (I hope!) addition of octaves above the bass string notes. So you're set whether you're holding a Baroque guitar or a modern guitar in your hand.

You'll find pieces here from short and "easy" to big and challenging. You'll recognize much of the music. You won't regret jumping in and playing from the beginning to the end, but here are a few things to look for.

There are 5 pieces which didn't need anything added for the modern version. You'll put your fingers exactly where Gaspar did! And there are a few others with maybe a single unimportant note added.

La Buelte is the shortest one, only 8 measures.

The Canarios is not the famous one, which is in Libro 1, but it's very nice.

You will probably know "Pavanas por la D" -- until you get to the campanelas (cross-string) section.

For a piece largely in campanelas throughout, try the Otro Granduque.

The last one, "Clarines y trompetes..." offers some fun with vibrato. It also has a section which was lifted for the "Fantasía para un gentilhombre" concerto.

Also, let me encourage those who have never played tablature, for whatever reason, to give it a go. Tablature, besides being perfect for ancient music written in tablature, is so simple it practically plays itself.

Finally, I was wondering if the complete Sanz in faithful tablature is already available for free in the web. I couldn't track one down with a bit of searching. The point is, if anyone enjoys this Libro 2, I'd be happy to work up the rest of Sanz's "Instruccion".

gilles T
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by gilles T » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:59 pm

Dear Donald,

I'm happy to be the first one to compliment you for this great work; I hope many members will show consideration for this huge labor of love. Libro 1& 2 have already been tabbed in modern notation on the former "baroque guitar.net", which can be accessed in archive here :
http://web.archive.org/web/200701200723 ... /index.htm

But Libro 3 is a very rare beast, so I'll be — and I hope I'm not the only one — more than interested if you decide to put your hands on it.
Thanks again for your generous involvement in baroque guitar and kindest regards,
Gilles

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Isabelle Frizac
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by Isabelle Frizac » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:25 pm

Donald & Gilles :bravo: :merci:
keep hope !
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Marshall Dixon
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by Marshall Dixon » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:34 pm

I've enjoyed the last hour looking over your very informative website and learned something new.

In comparing your transcriptions to those that I play (in standard notation) I'm finding things (especially mordents) that I've missed, or that aren't there.

Thanks for posting this. I'll surely give these transcriptions a closer look.

DonaldSauter
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by DonaldSauter » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:04 pm

gilles T wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:59 pm
I'm happy to be the first one to compliment you for this great work; [...] Libro 1& 2 have already been tabbed in modern notation on the former "baroque guitar.net", [...] But Libro 3 is a very rare beast, so I'll be — and I hope I'm not the only one — more than interested if you decide to put your hands on it.
Thanks for the kind words, and directions to the existing modern tab for Sanz. I wonder how anyone would find it; that page on archive.org is not even indexed by google! The tablature is quite good-looking. One small quibble is that I think most modern musicians are thoroughly used to ornaments being shown in front of the note they apply to, not behind. And I suppose I'll always prefer to see fret numbers positioned on tablature spaces rather than struck through by lines. More significantly, I think almost all musicians would prefer to see constant rhythm information supplied. In an interminable string of 16th notes, say, it's easy to lose track of the grouping into fours. Still, very good-looking and usable tab.

Will get to work on Libro 3 right away! I suppose the reason it hasn't been done is that those passacAlles are oh-so-high brow. But we need "high brow" to offset all the little dance hits! :-)

mainterm
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by mainterm » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:52 pm

gilles T wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:59 pm
But Libro 3 is a very rare beast, so I'll be — and I hope I'm not the only one — .... <snip>
Rare indeed - for this very reason, I spent quite some time last year working on an edition of Tomo/Libro 3 with the aim of presenting three staffs - TAB (literal transcription from Sanz), Modern notation (literal), and modern notation with voicing/polyphonic interpretation. The aim was to provide this as a backdrop reference for performing editions of the TAB and also a modern guitar revision/arrangement.

The project was sidetracked for various reasons, but I did get nearly 400 measures into it...

@ Donald - nice work with the website and all the materials there. I would suggest that maybe some little more (or perhaps more easily found) explanation of the bourdons, octave doubling etc couldn't hurt - especially for folks who find their way to your editions with little or no knowledge of the instrument and tuning systems used.

I think part of the reason my project stalled was that I had a hard time deciding what to do with the modern notation vis-a-vis the re-entrant tuning, tuning options in general.

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eno
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by eno » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:26 pm

It is strange that the works of one of the best Baroque guitar composer has not been fully transcribed yet after so many years.
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pogmoor
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by pogmoor » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:48 pm

eno wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:26 pm
It is strange that the works of one of the best Baroque guitar composer has not been fully transcribed yet after so many years.
Robert Strizich published a transcription (into notation) and translation of the complete music and text in Sanz's Instruccion de Musica sobre la guitarra española. The clue is in the title: The Complete Guitar Works of Gaspar Sanz (1999, Les Editions Dobermann-Yppan - ISBN 2-89503-030-8).
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Paul Fischer (1995) and Lester Backshall (2008)
Yamaha SLG 130NW silent classical guitar (2014), Ramirez Guitarra del Tiempo (2017)

mainterm
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by mainterm » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:32 am

pogmoor wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:48 pm
eno wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:26 pm
It is strange that the works of one of the best Baroque guitar composer has not been fully transcribed yet after so many years.
Robert Strizich published a transcription (into notation) and translation of the complete music and text in Sanz's Instruccion de Musica sobre la guitarra española. The clue is in the title: The Complete Guitar Works of Gaspar Sanz (1999, Les Editions Dobermann-Yppan - ISBN 2-89503-030-8).
I haven't laid eyes on this edition, but I believe it is literally a modern guitar edition. The original tabulature source material is not provided (neither in fac. nor transcription). Is this true? Does anyone here have this book?

Some may care little one way or another to read the tab or modern notation, but I do like the choice to do either as well as to make up my own mind regarding polyphonic textures and octave displacements. Just some thoughts :)

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pogmoor
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by pogmoor » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:05 pm

mainterm wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:32 am
I haven't laid eyes on this edition, but I believe it is literally a modern guitar edition. The original tablature source material is not provided (neither in fac. nor transcription). Is this true? Does anyone here have this book?
That's true, but the editor has listed in full detail all the changes he has made to suit the pieces for the modern guitar. As for facsimiles of the original tablature you can find all three books at imslp.org. Having said that I'm not meaning to decry the work done by Donald Sauter in creating modern tablature versions of the pieces; these seem to me a valuable resource.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Paul Fischer (1995) and Lester Backshall (2008)
Yamaha SLG 130NW silent classical guitar (2014), Ramirez Guitarra del Tiempo (2017)

mainterm
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by mainterm » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:04 pm

pogmoor wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:48 pm
eno wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:26 pm
It is strange that the works of one of the best Baroque guitar composer has not been fully transcribed yet after so many years.
Robert Strizich published a transcription (into notation) and translation of the complete music and text in Sanz's Instruccion de Musica sobre la guitarra española. The clue is in the title: The Complete Guitar Works of Gaspar Sanz (1999, Les Editions Dobermann-Yppan - ISBN 2-89503-030-8).
Thomas Heck wrote a thorough review of this edition which is easily found online. Heck's review provides some additional information about source materials in facsimile as well as references to several other editions of more or less complete works by Sanz including a description of ed. by Rodrigo de Zayas that includes both a transcription of the original tab and modern notation. Per Heck's review, the earliest of these modern transcriptions of Sanz date back to the mid 1960s.

Strizich was presumably aware of all these other editions and aimed to improve upon them.

For my part, I found working directly with the Sanz facsimiles on a modern guitar to be challenging due to the re-entrant tuning. But working with a modern edition such as Strizich and having to either cross reference the source material or an index of changes is somehow less satisfying than seeing the different formats stacked up in a single system.

Maybe too expensive to issue in print though...

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pogmoor
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by pogmoor » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:46 pm

mainterm wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:04 pm
Thomas Heck wrote a thorough review of this edition which is easily found online. Heck's review provides some additional information about source materials in facsimile as well as references to several other editions of more or less complete works by Sanz including a description of ed. by Rodrigo de Zayas that includes both a transcription of the original tab and modern notation. Per Heck's review, the earliest of these modern transcriptions of Sanz date back to the mid 1960s.
I hadn't come across that before, thanks for pointing it out. For those interested the full article can be found on The Free Library site.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Paul Fischer (1995) and Lester Backshall (2008)
Yamaha SLG 130NW silent classical guitar (2014), Ramirez Guitarra del Tiempo (2017)

mainterm
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by mainterm » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:38 pm

pogmoor wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:46 pm
mainterm wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:04 pm
Thomas Heck wrote a thorough review of this edition which is easily found online. Heck's review provides some additional information about source materials in facsimile as well as references to several other editions of more or less complete works by Sanz including a description of ed. by Rodrigo de Zayas that includes both a transcription of the original tab and modern notation. Per Heck's review, the earliest of these modern transcriptions of Sanz date back to the mid 1960s.
I hadn't come across that before, thanks for pointing it out. For those interested the full article can be found on The Free Library site.
np.

For anyone interested in what all of this could sound like... Gordon Feries has several nice video examples of Sanz (and other composers) on his website. His rendition of Sanz's Canarios demonstrates the sound/textural effect of the re-entrant tuning very nicely.

I'm sure there are many other nice examples out there...

DonaldSauter
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by DonaldSauter » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:14 pm

mainterm wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:04 pm
Thomas Heck wrote a thorough review of [Strizich's] edition which is easily found online.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'd like to respond to a couple of thing's Heck wrote.

Heck> Sanz in particular favored this arrangement [all treble strings]. When the lowest "bass" strings on a plucked instrument sound higher than the middle-range strings, serious issues are raised for those who attempt to transcribe tablature for musical sense.

I'm aware of Sanz's comment about not using basses, but I've always wondered if he really was saying what he meant, or if we've interpreted him correctly. It just seems too weird. When I strung up a modern guitar with all trebles, Sanz's music sounded pretty silly (to me). Has anyone preformed or recorded Sanz with all trebles, and made it work?

And even if one can answer that in the affirmative, I still don't believe that the first thing "the masses" who bought Sanz's guitar book back in the 1670s did was yank off all their basses and replace them with trebles. That's a chore! And unless there's evidence that they did, I'm calling Sanz performed with basses "authentic".

Heck> Strizich has done well in this regard, showing particular sensitivity in making visible the implied durations and contrapuntal lines that would be beard in performance but are simply not apparent in the tablatures.

I know I'm not the only one who dislikes seeing modern editions of ancient plucked string music showing separate voices. Doesn't that get into mind-reading? The rhythm information supplied with the original tablature seems just right (to me) for the music. That's one of the reasons I say that tablature is perfect for music written in tablature. Then again, somebody might argue that my filled-out rhythm information is going too far...

And while we're on the subject of Sanz's stringing, I read somewhere that some people believe Sanz had a high octave on his 3rd course, the G. I can't put my fingers on the reference, but I will say that I felt it was necessary in quite a few places in my Libro 2 versions for modern guitar to work in the high G. Any thoughts on Sanz's 3rd course? If needed I could provide precise locations where I think Sanz's music needs the high G.

mainterm
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Re: Gaspar Sanz; complete Libro 2 in modern tablature

Post by mainterm » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:08 pm

DonaldSauter wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:14 pm
mainterm wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:04 pm
Thomas Heck wrote a thorough review of [Strizich's] edition which is easily found online.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'd like to respond to a couple of thing's Heck wrote. ...<snip>
Hi Donald,

If you search online for an article written by Monica Hall regarding the stringing of 17th and 18th century guitars you should find a fairly comprehensive response to most if not all of your comments above.

Whether you agree with her assessment is another matter... For myself, I concluded that publishing a modern music notation edition of Sanz is too problematic to do without getting paid - perhaps a thesis project out there waiting to happen (or happened? could search for that too). I do think that Sanz used the fully re-entrant tuning - it helps make the campanellas shine :)

Anyway, it certainly could be the case that Sanz's original approach is the simplest and certainly clearest way to present this music. You've gone further to make it easier to read from... so an improvement - provided of course a clear and comprehensive note is made regarding the stringing set-up and historical context.

If you haven't already done so, I would urge you to check out the Gordon Feries site that I mentioned above. You hear the occasional 7th/9th leaps in the melodic line and it is quite clear that the overall register is quite small, but I think it works musically.

Regards,
JK

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