Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Concerts

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Beowulf

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Beowulf » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:33 pm

Vlad Kosulin wrote:I still see green circles in rosette :roll:
Well, yes there are some very thin green circles and green leaves accompanying the roses...but what I was referring to were huge areas of fluorescent green speckling on the spruce top and large circles and outlines of the same colour on the rosette and outlining the shadows in the interior of the body. My mistake, the green aberration was so extreme I couldn't see the green that is on the guitar rosette. What shows now is what is on the guitar...before, green meanies all over the place...still :?

Beowulf

Beowulf

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Beowulf » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:58 pm

Can anyone help...no green meanies on my posted images yesterday...today all three images have them again??? Does anyone else see these artifacts?
Thanks,
Beowulf

Beowulf

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Beowulf » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:29 pm

Okay...this may be a Firefox browser artifact which others are not seeing. I have taken a snapshot of the image I see in my browser and converted it from png to JPEG.
Yamaha GC-10 site photo png.jpg
Does anyone else see the problem? It also appears in the following post, but not in the first two pictures viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66135 ?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Beowulf

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Beowulf » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:27 pm

Problem appears to be solved (the issue appears in the above image which I copied from the browser) and no longer appears in any images that I see on the site. It was a firefox colour management issue which I resolved with a plugin that allows adjustment of colour management options in the about:config file. Sorry if I needlessly used up anyone's classical guitar time... :wink:
Beowulf

User avatar
chelson
Posts: 471
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:21 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by chelson » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:00 am

Beowulf wrote:Many thanks chelson! I am pretty sure that it is japanese and suspect that it would be the luthier's "signature." Of course this could contain a name, but also as you suggest a reference to the voice of the instrument. Thanks for your thoughts.

On a second technical point, I notice that today, all green aberrations have disappeared from my posted images? I also realized that the two posted images appear the same size in the posts despite the fact that the second upload file was 2.5+ times larger than the first. Perhaps an administrator will have the answer to this mystery.

Finally...to provide a more readable image of the writing on the label:
Japanese Luthier's Name.jpg
If my reduction of all the characters 巧语秀 are correct, then my suspect it is Chinese not Japanese. Why?

Because 语 (which also means spoken words, language) is a simplified Chinese writing strokes. Japanese Kanji is only written in traditional Chinese strokes. Just do a search in Internet, we can only find 語 in Japanese Kanji. Unless the Japanese who signed it uses the simplified Chinese writing strokes. Or, its a gift from a Chinese.

Interesting!
Without heart and desire, talent is nothing.

coppice

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by coppice » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:59 pm

chelson wrote: If my reduction of all the characters 巧语秀 are correct, then my suspect it is Chinese not Japanese. Why?

Because 语 (which also means spoken words, language) is a simplified Chinese writing strokes. Japanese Kanji is only written in traditional Chinese strokes. Just do a search in Internet, we can only find 語 in Japanese Kanji. Unless the Japanese who signed it uses the simplified Chinese writing strokes. Or, its a gift from a Chinese.

Interesting!
You are missing something important. Its hand written. I would guess its Japanese.

Steve

Beowulf

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Beowulf » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:30 pm

Hmm...the modern Japanese writing system does use the adopted logographic Chinese kanji characters, but also, could this be the modern cursive hiragana script? However, it seems to be usual that Japanese surnames are written in kanji and examples I have seen have 4 or 3 vertical character groups, with the top two representing the surname. As well, a surname could be composed of as many as 5 characters.

User avatar
chelson
Posts: 471
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:21 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by chelson » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:22 am

coppice wrote:
chelson wrote: If my reduction of all the characters 巧语秀 are correct, then my suspect it is Chinese not Japanese. Why?

Because 语 (which also means spoken words, language) is a simplified Chinese writing strokes. Japanese Kanji is only written in traditional Chinese strokes. Just do a search in Internet, we can only find 語 in Japanese Kanji. Unless the Japanese who signed it uses the simplified Chinese writing strokes. Or, its a gift from a Chinese.

Interesting!
You are missing something important. Its hand written. I would guess its Japanese.

Steve
I have studied Chinese calligraphy before. So, these hand writings aren't stranger to me. But of course, there can be otherwise based on the form it's presented. It's just a guess after all.
Without heart and desire, talent is nothing.

Beowulf

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Beowulf » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:02 pm

Finally...I believe I have tracked down the name of the Japanese luthier: Toshio Kato. He was apparently the first to be trained at Yamaha by the Spanish luthier Eduardo Ferrer.

Rob22315

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Rob22315 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:28 pm

Going back to the very first post in this thread - I just bought a G245S off e - b a y last week. It should deliver tomorrow. I'm very excited because the G245S has a solid top while my current G240ii has a laminate top. The G240ii sounds surprisingly great and is built like a tank so the G245S should sound even better.

I made some mods to the G240ii after I broke it out of 'cold storage'. I upgraded the nut and compensated saddle with ones made of tusq and bone respectively, lowering the action as well. I also replaced the tired stock tuners with new ones from Der Jung. The final touch was a set of string ties so I could increase the break angle on the considerably lowered saddle. I'm quite pleased with the results on the G240ii and will likely make the same mods to the G245S when it arrives.

I'll track down the year it was made via the serial number on the guitar and the links posted in this thread. I noticed the G245S has it's own Wikipedia entry, any idea of the source? There also a great blog entry for the G- series of guitars espousing the cost-effective virtues, spectacular spruce and cedar tops, and the great sounds of these guitars.

Thanks for all the good info.

User avatar
Bob Newby
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: Portsmouth, New Hampsire, USA

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Bob Newby » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:55 pm

Rob22315 wrote:Going back to the very first post in this thread - I just bought a G245S off e - b a y last week. ...
Your plans for modifying your inbound G245S dovetail with ones I made to mine a few years ago. In sum, they made a real difference, and were well worth the cost. With some sadness, my G245S will be for sale sometime this year. My first CG, my first love...

Let us know your thoughts and feelings about your new family member once you've modified it.

Bob
Founder of LuthierBuilt - Where musicians and artisans meet, envision and create

Rob22315

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Rob22315 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:52 pm

Bob Newby wrote:
Rob22315 wrote:Going back to the very first post in this thread - I just bought a G245S off e - b a y last week. ...
Your plans for modifying your inbound G245S dovetail with ones I made to mine a few years ago. In sum, they made a real difference, and were well worth the cost. With some sadness, my G245S will be for sale sometime this year. My first CG, my first love...

Let us know your thoughts and feelings about your new family member once you've modified it.

Bob
I've been able to get really nice bone saddles and nuts off e - b a y that fit great after 20-30 minutes of careful sanding. A nice bone set can be had for around $12-15 (including shipping) while Tusq sets can be had for $20-22. It looks like the bone parts come off NC machines somewhere in China or Taiwan so the shape is really clean. The bone parts are usually too thick so the hardest part is using a dremel tool to shave off the lower 2/3s of the bone saddle so it fits in the slot. The Tusq saddles are already thin enough. The intonation of the G string on the thick bone saddles seems to work well so I had to leave enough thickness at the top to keep the compensation in place. I haven't tried the Tusc saddle yet but since it only needs to be lowered (not thinned), I'll probably drop that into the G245S first when it arrives.

I was hoping the strings would slide smoothly over the tusq nut but one or two of the bass strings still hang up during tuning (mostly the D string). Any suggestions as to how I might file the nut a little to keep that from happening?

Bone sands much easier than Tusq but smells bad - especially if it starts to burn under the moto-tool bit.

Rob22315

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Rob22315 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:53 pm

I've had the guitar for a couple of days now. I installed a bone nut and a tusq saddle lowering the already low action a bit. The overall improvement of the workmanship and tone of the 245 vs the 240ii is huge. The 245 has many of the features of the 255 - veneered headstock, solid spruce top, and a sealed interior.

A few notes - There's no slot for the nut, it sits loose at the end of the fret board. I installed a bone nut, one with the curved entry slots on the tuner side of the nut. Fits and tunes much better than the original. The stock saddle is really narrow on the 245 - I had to make the 2.5 mm Tusq saddle even thinner to get it to fit so it's probably 2mm. I want to fit a wider bone saddle but that will involve a lot of sanding when I get around to it. The Tusq saddle needs more compensation.

I put high tension d'addario composites but will probably convert to medium tension composites or lightly polished composites once the new tuners arrive. I was surprised to find that touching the back of the guitar noticeably altered the tone. The lore which says the back and sides don't matter may be off a bit.

musicstand

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by musicstand » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:07 am

Rob22315,
I am late with this info and I am sorry. You wrote.....
""I was hoping the strings would slide smoothly over the tusq nut but one or two of the bass strings still hang up during tuning (mostly the D string). Any suggestions as to how I might file the nut a little to keep that from happening?""

I always rub the nut slots with a pencil whenever I change the strings. I use the 2B (softness or hardness ??) .5mm leads in my Pilot pencil.
Regards
Jim

Rob22315

Re: Researching Older Yamaha Guitars - Including Grand Conce

Post by Rob22315 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:28 pm

I'll give that a shot Jim, thanks for the tip.

Return to “Public Space”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Adrian Allan, Altophile, Archibal, Briant, CommonCrawl [Bot], Granary Guitars, hackedpineapple, OldPotter, Portland Bill and 8 guests