How to play copyrighted music on the forum

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kirolak
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby kirolak » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:50 am

byronz wrote:Well it's good to know that these publishers and artists now allow their scores to be played for free. Having said this it should be said that legally (in the UK at least), copyright only lasts for 70 years after the creator's/composer's / artist's death.This means that, say the music of Barrios, should become copyright free in 2014. (He died in 1944)
Of course all music by Bach, Sor, Tarrega etc has been copyright free for a very long time. So one should perform that without any fear.

One also must question the whole issue of copyright when we live in an electronic age where everything can be found on the internet, on youtube and p2p sites. Everybody shares information, it's a common agreement. Personally I believe it's time that all art and music were published for free, provided that the person using it states his source ie. agknowledges the autor, doesn't modify the integrity of the content in any way, and of course doesn't then sell the material to others for his own profit.
Anyone who downloads art or music should have the ability to make a voluntary contribution or donation to the author/artist. That's what I think should apply to electronic 'products' like wav, mp3, jpg files. Physical products are different of course because there one is buying something unique, real and tangible.

I believe art is priceless anyway. True art is not concerned with our socialized values. It's from another dimension altogether. So all these millions paid for a Picasso or Van Gogh is nonsense. There has just been an agreement to create another form of currency for people to invest in. It has nothing to do with art at all.
Others will surely disagree with this view of mine, but this just makes for a more varied and interesting world.


I agree with you! I for one would not be (attempting) to make money from playing copyrighted scores, anyway . . . it would be a private exercise. I do believe that art is something that can not be copyrighted, except for public performances (or exhibitions in the case of plastic arts)

PeteJ
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby PeteJ » Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:14 pm

I feel that the horse has bolted. It is great that this forum takes such care with copyright but it's almost alone in taking this approach.

I'm not yet quite convinced that putting up a recording of a published score on a site like this is actually a copyright infringement - but I suppose you guys are on the ball.

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John Daily
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby John Daily » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:14 pm

The problem is that, over two decades down the road (from the time when the Internet really became an important content delivery system), we still have no legal definition of "fair use." As a result, like it or not, while public performance of a piece may not be a copyright violation in the U.S. (as it is not considered a publication), posting a recording of that performance is. The fact that so many people do it doesn't make it any less true. To make matters even more complicated, these forums are international, which raises even more questions about copyright legality. Monsieur Delcamp is rightfully erring on the side of caution.

flamen

Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby flamen » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:04 pm

Copyright is turning into an obstacle to the practice and divulgation of music. Apart from this, what about transcriptions ? Should we consider them too as arrangements and so ask permissions ?

Joe de V
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby Joe de V » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:08 pm

I am confused by the terminology being used here. I have in the past understood that A published piece of music or volumes that are used by teachers of guitar are to be played by anyone as long as the author is given the credit and no changes and /or copies for business purposes are made to the music.
Extending this view to include players that wish to demonstrate their skill - via You Tube and this forum as an example can be argued (legal argument) that it is not a violation of copyrighted music.
Can anyone present a point in a situation where the players that have purchased a volume of music cannot play it in a public place or via electronic medium like this forum. Comments and clarifications would be appreciated.

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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby GeoffB » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:21 am

The issue is not so much whether you can play it, but the fees that normally have to be paid to the copyright holder (usually via a third party) whenever a copyrighted piece is played in public, whether you're charging for your performance or not. See my reply earlier in the topic here. This forum has no mechanism for paying such fees, so recordings of copyrighted pieces can't be uploaded here unless the fee is waived by the copyright holder.
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Joe de V
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby Joe de V » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:22 pm

GeoffB wrote:The issue is not so much whether you can play it, but the fees that normally have to be paid to the copyright holder (usually via a third party) whenever a copyrighted piece is played in public, whether you're charging for your performance or not. See my reply earlier in the topic here. This forum has no mechanism for paying such fees, so recordings of copyrighted pieces can't be uploaded here unless the fee is waived by the copyright holder.


Thank you GeoffB for your explanation. I am assuming then that there are a very large percent of copyright holders that never get paid. I recall the case where in 1970 Paul Simon was sued by the son of the Peruvian composer Daniel Alomia Robles ( El Condor Pasa) for copyright violation. Simon ended acknowledging his "carelessnes" in not investigating the original composer of this piece.This piece was first performed in public in 1913 - a song from the zarzuela "El Condor Pasa" and was copyrighted in the USA in 1933.

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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby flamen » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:29 pm

Kimon wrote:Isn't it simpler to publish a list of composers who don't want their works performed in public? I'd find that a much more interesting list.

Also can someone explain to me how playing a composer's work on Delcamp is depriving an author or their estate of income? I'd have thought it might even encourage someone to order the sheet music if they heard it.

I've often ordered sheet music based on a YouTube rendition of a piece. It's a strange composer who doesn't recognise the Internet as a way to get their music to a wide audience.


In my opinion you are perfectly right. As I have mentioned in a post, the copyright, that is the defense of composers and right owners, has turned into an obstacle to their survival, since artistic creations live of shared knowledge and die of the opposite.

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guitarrista
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby guitarrista » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:01 pm

Kimon wrote:Also can someone explain to me how playing a composer's work on Delcamp is depriving an author or their estate of income? I'd have thought it might even encourage someone to order the sheet music if they heard it.


Two things here.
First, copyright infringement extends beyond commercial aspects. Let's look at the US version of the copyright law (but the rights are fairly similar across other nations) - as you can see the exclusive rights reserved to the copyright holder are much more expansive than just commerce-related actions:
Capture12.JPG


Second, regardless of what would be reasonable nowadays or what would make more sense, the law is what it is, until it is modified. So, legally, you are on the hook of you infringe on any of these exclusive copy rights even if the copyright holder decides to be lax in terms of enforcing some of them.
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Kurt Penner
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby Kurt Penner » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:28 am

Newbie question: so should I take this all to mean that I should NOT post a vid in the contemporary section of the Walton Bagatelles unless I have written permission from Oxford University Press?

KP

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George Crocket
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby George Crocket » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:13 am

Assuming OUP are the sole copyright holders, this is correct.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby Stephen Kenyon » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:06 am

George Crocket wrote:Assuming OUP are the sole copyright holders, this is correct.


Is it OK though George to post something like "I've made a video of Bagatelle no ... and you can find it on my channel called 'xyz' ..." ?
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George Crocket
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby George Crocket » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:09 pm

Stephen, it is certainly acceptable to post messages like that in the Members' Announcements subforum provided they comply with the Forum Rules for that Subforum.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby Stephen Kenyon » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:19 pm

George Crocket wrote:Stephen, it is certainly acceptable to post messages like that in the Members' Announcements subforum provided they comply with the Forum Rules for that Subforum.


Thanks George. I have to note though that quite commonly links are posted to videos during which copyright works are presented without their being the ostensible purpose of the link, for example to a demonstration of a particular make of guitars in a recent thread.
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George Crocket
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Re: How to play copyrighted music on the forum

Postby George Crocket » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:05 pm

Stephen, the Mod Team try not to be too heavy-handed, contrary to the belief of some members. but where we see links to copyright material we would remove the link and suggest search terms pointing those interested in the direction of the video.

We cannot be around all the time, nor read every post, nor follow every link. So we do miss things at times. :oops:

We are always grateful to members who help us by using the report function on posts where there is any question. Perhaps you could PM a link to the thread you mention so that we can look into it.
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