Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
Cipher
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Cipher » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:10 am

Cipher wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:50 am

I find it very strange that you like HVL's music but don't like Stravinsky at all?
That's the wonder of human individuality, I guess, and I thank God for it!

~Sean
Many years ago in my youth I had your attitude with regards to liking certain great composers and not liking others at all. I gave no reasons to other music lovers for it, other than this is my individual taste for better or worse.. But then I noticed that many of the great musicians (both instrumentalists and conductors that I idolized and admired from recordings and live concerts) performed with tremendous heart and immense expertise both the composers I loved and the ones I didn't care for.

So I asked myself what kind of sensitive ears do these great musicians have that I can cultivate in my own musical taste to broaden my musical horizons. So I started to listen to a bunch of composers I didn't particularly like: Mahler, Bruckner, Hindemith,Schoenberg and Shostakovich. I picked a few of the more well-known works by these composers and bought recordings that I forced myself to listen to again and again until the musical language became more familiar to me. At this time I took some music theory and ear training courses in college that helped me to understand how music works. All this gave me an appreciation of classical music that I simply didn't have before.

Eventually I knew at least a few pieces from each of the great composers and I began to appreciate more music that I ever did before. I decided that I would rather be somebody like Leonard Bernstein who was equally at home in Beethoven and Mahler's music or somebody like conductor Michael Tilson Thomas who is equally at home with both Stravinsky and Villa-Lobos :D :wink:
Last edited by Cipher on Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

simonm
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by simonm » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:50 am

MrF1 wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:34 am

I usually find most modern pieces really appealing, but when I hear Maw's "Music of Memory" I usually end up on the floor, curled up in the fetal position.....
Thanks for the warning. :-)

Never heard of it before. Maybe some players would enjoy it, but a quick listening "scan" of a couple of versions suggests that it is impossible for an audience to "listen" to. Sections of it are basically inaudible to anyone except the player. Maybe there is a reason why this one is not really in the "Famous Pieces" category.

Altophile
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Altophile » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:20 am

Cipher wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:10 am
Cipher wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:50 am

I find it very strange that you like HVL's music but don't like Stravinsky at all?
That's the wonder of human individuality, I guess, and I thank God for it!

~Sean
Many years ago in my youth I had your attitude with regards to liking certain great composers and not liking others at all. I gave no reasons to other music lovers for it, other than this is my individual taste for better or worse.. But then I noticed that many of the great musicians (both instrumentalists and conductors that I idolized and admired from recordings and live concerts) performed with tremendous heart and immense expertise both the composers I loved and the ones I didn't care for.

So I asked myself what kind of sensitive ears do these great musicians have that I can cultivate in my own musical taste to broaden my musical horizons. So I started to listen to a bunch of composers I didn't particularly like: Mahler, Bruckner, Hindemith,Schoenberg and Shostakovich. I picked a few of the more well-known works by these composers and bought recordings that I forced myself to listen to again and again until the musical language became more familiar to me. At this time I took some music theory and ear training courses in college that helped me to understand how music works. All this gave me an appreciation of classical music that I simply didn't have before.

Eventually I knew at least a few pieces from each of the great composers and I began to appreciate more music that I ever did before. I decided that I would rather be somebody like Leonard Bernstein who was equally at home in Beethoven and Mahler's music or somebody like conductor Michael Tilson Thomas who is equally at home with both Stravinsky and Villa-Lobos :D :wink:
Well, I'm much closer to the end of my life than to my youth, and really have no desire to "fix" my "narrow-minded" view, as your story seems to respectfully suggest.

I also enjoy a wide variety of music, including Classical, Opera, Neapolitan songs, World Music, Fado, Celtic, Jazz, R&B, Country, Rock, Country Rock, some New Age, Blues, Bluegrass, Folk, and so on. I have no use for Heavy Metal, Acid Rock, Hard Rock, Rap, Hip Hop, or the modern dissonance junk, and I make no apologies for it. I don't try to push my taste on others or imply that their lack of appreciation for the music I like means that they should develop a better ear or a more sophisticated approach. Music is different things for different people; for me it's simply something to enjoy, and if I don't enjoy it, I don't listen to it.

~Sean

Cipher
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Cipher » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:09 pm

Altophile wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:20 am
Cipher wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:10 am
Cipher wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:50 am

I find it very strange that you like HVL's music but don't like Stravinsky at all?
That's the wonder of human individuality, I guess, and I thank God for it!

~Sean
Many years ago in my youth I had your attitude with regards to liking certain great composers and not liking others at all. I gave no reasons to other music lovers for it, other than this is my individual taste for better or worse.. But then I noticed that many of the great musicians (both instrumentalists and conductors that I idolized and admired from recordings and live concerts) performed with tremendous heart and immense expertise both the composers I loved and the ones I didn't care for.

So I asked myself what kind of sensitive ears do these great musicians have that I can cultivate in my own musical taste to broaden my musical horizons. So I started to listen to a bunch of composers I didn't particularly like: Mahler, Bruckner, Hindemith,Schoenberg and Shostakovich. I picked a few of the more well-known works by these composers and bought recordings that I forced myself to listen to again and again until the musical language became more familiar to me. At this time I took some music theory and ear training courses in college that helped me to understand how music works. All this gave me an appreciation of classical music that I simply didn't have before.

Eventually I knew at least a few pieces from each of the great composers and I began to appreciate more music that I ever did before. I decided that I would rather be somebody like Leonard Bernstein who was equally at home in Beethoven and Mahler's music or somebody like conductor Michael Tilson Thomas who is equally at home with both Stravinsky and Villa-Lobos :D :wink:
Well, I'm much closer to the end of my life than to my youth, and really have no desire to "fix" my "narrow-minded" view, as your story seems to respectfully suggest.

I also enjoy a wide variety of music, including Classical, Opera, Neapolitan songs, World Music, Fado, Celtic, Jazz, R&B, Country, Rock, Country Rock, some New Age, Blues, Bluegrass, Folk, and so on. I have no use for Heavy Metal, Acid Rock, Hard Rock, Rap, Hip Hop, or the modern dissonance junk, and I make no apologies for it. I don't try to push my taste on others or imply that their lack of appreciation for the music I like means that they should develop a better ear or a more sophisticated approach. Music is different things for different people; for me it's simply something to enjoy, and if I don't enjoy it, I don't listen to it.

~Sean
Ok no problem I didn't mean to offend you and I apologize if I did. For me music is much more than enjoyment, it is literally my life and soul that I have devoted many years of intense study to so I tend to try to proselytize my love of the great classical composers and their great works. Since this is a classical forum the fact that you like a wide range of non-classical musical genres doesn't make an impression on me, I'm mostly interested in classical repertoire. So when I hear you say that you don't like not even a single piece by Stravinsky, not even the gorgeous, beautiful, and accessible Firebird ballet it literally causes me great pain that you feel that way and I'm trying to maybe convince you to give Stravinsky another chance, that you're missing out on one of the greatest musical experiences ever penned by a composer. You see I really don't like when I hear people dismiss a great piece of music or a great composer entirely without giving any reason at all, it's not enough to say everyone's taste is different, I believe a person should be able to articulate clearly why they don't like a piece of music. On a specialty classical music forum like this one I would assume that you're going to interact with all sorts of musicians of various levels from novice to advanced, amateur to professional and that some people like myself are not going to let a remark like not liking Stravinsky with no reason given to go by without inquiring why. I see that you're set in your ways and have no desire to change so I won't saying anything directly to you anymore, just wanted to let you know that saying you don't like not even a single piece or section of a piece by Stravinsky yet liking Villa-Lobos' music (who clearly is influenced by Stravinsky) will be met with pushback by Stravinsky lovers such as myself. Again my apologies.

AndreiKrylov
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:13 pm

I do not like everything badly played without passion and love everything played well and with passion...
Thanks!

Cipher
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Cipher » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:33 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:13 pm
I do not like everything badly played without passion and love everything played well and with passion...
Wow that's great!!! :bravo:

Altophile
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Altophile » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:28 pm

Ok no problem I didn't mean to offend you and I apologize if I did.
You didn't offend me at all, no need to apologize.
For me music is much more than enjoyment, it is literally my life and soul that I have devoted many years of intense study to so I tend to try to proselytize my love of the great classical composers and their great works.
Yes, well that is where we differ. I tend to restrict my proselytizing to my Christian ministry, though I do sometimes try to encourage folks to broaden their musical horizons.
Since this is a classical forum the fact that you like a wide range of non-classical musical genres doesn't make an impression on me. I'm mostly interested in classical repertoire.
Although this is a classical guitar forum, non-classical pieces are discussed all the time. Guitar arrangements of Vincent, Ashokan Farewell, and countless other non-classical pieces have been the subject of various threads here. I find your lack of interest in them as puzzling as you find my lack of appreciation for Stravinsky.
So when I hear you say that you don't like not even a single piece by Stravinsky, not even the gorgeous, beautiful, and accessible Firebird ballet it literally causes me great pain that you feel that way and I'm trying to maybe convince you to give Stravinsky another chance, that you're missing out on one of the greatest musical experiences ever penned by a composer.
You're extrapolating too far. I haven't listened to much Stravinsky, so there may be a piece or two that I would like if I had the time to audition them all. What I can say is that what I've heard of Stravinsky I didn't like, and this makes me disinclined to dedicate much time to his compositions when there are countless other compositions by composers whose work I do enjoy that I have yet to hear, which stand a much better chance of causing me to experience enjoyment. People tell me that there's good Rap and Hip Hop out there, too, but I'm not about to spend what precious time I have left in this world listening to obnoxious noise because there may be one or two scattered roses growing on the dunghill. Once you reach the latter part of your life, it becomes important to be selective and focus on those areas that have the greatest potential to provide enjoyment and meaning.
You see I really don't like when I hear people dismiss a great piece of music or a great composer entirely without giving any reason at all, it's not enough to say everyone's taste is different, I believe a person should be able to articulate clearly why they don't like a piece of music.
Really? So if a person doesn't like white cars, she should be able to carefully articulate why? I used to work with a fellow who once told me that he didn't care for music of any kind at all. He said that he can take it or leave it. Should he be required to articulate why music doesn't impact him the way it does most others, or should we just accept that people have a smorgasbord of likes, dislikes, and indifferences, and leave it at that?
On a specialty classical music forum like this one I would assume that you're going to interact with all sorts of musicians of various levels from novice to advanced, amateur to professional and that some people like myself are not going to let a remark like not liking Stravinsky with no reason given to go by without inquiring why.
Well, they can inquire, but the why is simply that I don't like the music of Stravinsky that I've heard, and I have too little free time to search for potential exceptions.
I see that you're set in your ways and have no desire to change so I won't saying anything directly to you anymore, just wanted to let you know that saying you don't like not even a single piece or section of a piece by Stravinsky yet liking Villa-Lobos' music (who clearly is influenced by Stravinsky) will be met with pushback by Stravinsky lovers such as myself.
Wow! I don't like Stravinsky so you won't interact with me anymore? That's a remarkably perplexing reaction.

~Sean

Cipher
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Cipher » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:24 am

Altophile wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:28 pm
Ok no problem I didn't mean to offend you and I apologize if I did.
You didn't offend me at all, no need to apologize.
For me music is much more than enjoyment, it is literally my life and soul that I have devoted many years of intense study to so I tend to try to proselytize my love of the great classical composers and their great works.
Yes, well that is where we differ. I tend to restrict my proselytizing to my Christian ministry, though I do sometimes try to encourage folks to broaden their musical horizons.
Since this is a classical forum the fact that you like a wide range of non-classical musical genres doesn't make an impression on me. I'm mostly interested in classical repertoire.
Although this is a classical guitar forum, non-classical pieces are discussed all the time. Guitar arrangements of Vincent, Ashokan Farewell, and countless other non-classical pieces have been the subject of various threads here. I find your lack of interest in them as puzzling as you find my lack of appreciation for Stravinsky.
So when I hear you say that you don't like not even a single piece by Stravinsky, not even the gorgeous, beautiful, and accessible Firebird ballet it literally causes me great pain that you feel that way and I'm trying to maybe convince you to give Stravinsky another chance, that you're missing out on one of the greatest musical experiences ever penned by a composer.
You're extrapolating too far. I haven't listened to much Stravinsky, so there may be a piece or two that I would like if I had the time to audition them all. What I can say is that what I've heard of Stravinsky I didn't like, and this makes me disinclined to dedicate much time to his compositions when there are countless other compositions by composers whose work I do enjoy that I have yet to hear, which stand a much better chance of causing me to experience enjoyment. People tell me that there's good Rap and Hip Hop out there, too, but I'm not about to spend what precious time I have left in this world listening to obnoxious noise because there may be one or two scattered roses growing on the dunghill. Once you reach the latter part of your life, it becomes important to be selective and focus on those areas that have the greatest potential to provide enjoyment and meaning.
You see I really don't like when I hear people dismiss a great piece of music or a great composer entirely without giving any reason at all, it's not enough to say everyone's taste is different, I believe a person should be able to articulate clearly why they don't like a piece of music.
Really? So if a person doesn't like white cars, she should be able to carefully articulate why? I used to work with a fellow who once told me that he didn't care for music of any kind at all. He said that he can take it or leave it. Should he be required to articulate why music doesn't impact him the way it does most others, or should we just accept that people have a smorgasbord of likes, dislikes, and indifferences, and leave it at that?
On a specialty classical music forum like this one I would assume that you're going to interact with all sorts of musicians of various levels from novice to advanced, amateur to professional and that some people like myself are not going to let a remark like not liking Stravinsky with no reason given to go by without inquiring why.
Well, they can inquire, but the why is simply that I don't like the music of Stravinsky that I've heard, and I have too little free time to search for potential exceptions.
I see that you're set in your ways and have no desire to change so I won't saying anything directly to you anymore, just wanted to let you know that saying you don't like not even a single piece or section of a piece by Stravinsky yet liking Villa-Lobos' music (who clearly is influenced by Stravinsky) will be met with pushback by Stravinsky lovers such as myself.
Wow! I don't like Stravinsky so you won't interact with me anymore? That's a remarkably perplexing reaction.

~Sean
My oh my are you stubborn!! :x :lol:

Look it's not THAT perplexing, Stravinsky is one of the greatest musical minds ever to walk this earth! :D It's important that you at least know and like ONE of his pieces or even a part of a great piece. Surely you have 4 minutes to listen to the last few pages of Stravinsky's first masterpiece, his magnificent Firebird ballet.

Please search this video title on YouTube as I can't post the direct link for possible copyright reasons. Make sure you have a pair of good headphones or good computer speakers to appreciate the lush sound of the Vienna Philharmonic orchestra

Firebird Suite Finale - Valery Gergiev Conducting the Vienna Philharmonic - Salzburg Festival 2000

and let me know what you think of the music, you probably may already know it as it is very famous.

Then please, please, listen to the haunting Berceuse from the Firebird as well played by violinist Kyu Wha Chung in her younger years.

search this Youtube video title

Kyung Wha Chung plays Stravinsky 'Berceuse' from Firebird

I'm hoping these will change your mind about Stravinsky. Please let me know what you think. :D I don't want to hear that you don't like Stravinsky at all as a blanket statement, of course you do, you like his Firebird! :D

BTW I appreciate all types and genres of music as well and I know there's loads of discussions here about more popular and easy-on-the-ears tunes that work well on the guitar like The Beatles, Vincent and Ashokan Farewell but since this is a classical guitar forum I tend to enjoy discussing the strictly classical pieces and their composers more.

Kind regards, Cipher

Altophile
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Altophile » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:43 am

My oh my are you stubborn!! :x :lol:
LOL, said the pot to the kettle;-)

~Sean

Cipher
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Cipher » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:17 am

Altophile wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:43 am
My oh my are you stubborn!! :x :lol:
LOL, said the pot to the kettle;-)

~Sean
Yes and this stubborn Delcamper is eagerly awaiting your thoughts about the two Stravinsky excerpts... :D

C.

P.S. Another Stravinsky piece you probably will enjoy is his Pulcinella ballet, a lovely neoclassical work.
Last edited by Cipher on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

Cipher
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Cipher » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:25 am

...

DavisComposer85
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by DavisComposer85 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:27 am

For me, when playing guitar concertos, most guitarists couldn't escape from Concierto De Aranjuez.

Maybe it is out of this topic, but I honestly say I'm kind of tired to hear this piece plays by many guitarists.

I'm looking forward more great contemporary Classical guitar composers, hopefully not too much percussive technique which influenced by fingerstyle guitarists.

Cipher
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Cipher » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:42 pm

DavisComposer85 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:27 am
For me, when playing guitar concertos, most guitarists couldn't escape from Concierto De Aranjuez.

Maybe it is out of this topic, but I honestly say I'm kind of tired to hear this piece plays by many guitarists.

I'm looking forward more great contemporary Classical guitar composers, hopefully not too much percussive technique which influenced by fingerstyle guitarists.
Sounds like you don't like the Aranjuez Concerto because it is overplayed and I agree it is, but no more and probably not nearly as overplayed as Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto which classical music audiences gladly sit through every season in city orchestras around the world. The Aranjuez is probably the guitar repertoire's most successful, accessible, and memorable work among other attributes that make it the most played concerto. Audiences love it even though guitar aficionados are probably tired of hearing it that doesn't take away from its intrinsic beauty. As somebody mentioned earlier in this thread the topic should be about famous pieces you don't like period, not those you've become tired of.

As for contemporary guitar concertos that fit your criteria I suggest you check out Stephen Goss' Guitar Concerto which has recently been expertly recorded by John Williams on his Concerto album. There's a few other nice pieces for guitar and orchestra on that album too which I'm sure you will enjoy. Let us know what you think of the Goss concerto, the middle movement is quite beautiful and is actually an orchestrated version of his lovely piece for solo guitar the Maryleborne Elegy.

Altophile
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by Altophile » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:23 pm

Cipher wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:17 am
Altophile wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:43 am
My oh my are you stubborn!! :x :lol:
LOL, said the pot to the kettle;-)

~Sean
Yes and this stubborn Delcamper is eagerly awaiting your thoughts about the two Stravinsky excerpts... :D

C.

P.S. Another Stravinsky piece you probably will enjoy is his Pulcinella ballet, a lovely neoclassical work.
Yeah, I've heard the Firebird Suite and don't really care for it. The violin solo and the Finale are both tolerable, but they don't do anything for me.

Now, Beethoven's 9th Symphony puts a smile on my face and makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up to salute;-) I love so many great composers who have gifted the world so much beautiful music, so there's no need to loose sleep because I don't care for some of the more modern stuff. There is a cornucopia of gorgeous music from the Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, and Romantic periods for me to explore, and since the odds are so much greater that I'll find something I enjoy from those periods than by perusing Stravinsky's catalog, I'm content to focus on those earlier periods.

~Sean

ddray
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Re: Famous pieces of repertoire you just don't like?

Post by ddray » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:09 pm

Cipher wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:42 pm
DavisComposer85 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:27 am
For me, when playing guitar concertos, most guitarists couldn't escape from Concierto De Aranjuez.

Maybe it is out of this topic, but I honestly say I'm kind of tired to hear this piece plays by many guitarists.

I'm looking forward more great contemporary Classical guitar composers, hopefully not too much percussive technique which influenced by fingerstyle guitarists.
Sounds like you don't like the Aranjuez Concerto because it is overplayed and I agree it is, but no more and probably not nearly as overplayed as Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto which classical music audiences gladly sit through every season in city orchestras around the world. The Aranjuez is probably the guitar repertoire's most successful, accessible, and memorable work among other attributes that make it the most played concerto. Audiences love it even though guitar aficionados are probably tired of hearing it that doesn't take away from its intrinsic beauty. As somebody mentioned earlier in this thread the topic should be about famous pieces you don't like period, not those you've become tired of.

As for contemporary guitar concertos that fit your criteria I suggest you check out Stephen Goss' Guitar Concerto which has recently been expertly recorded by John Williams on his Concerto album. There's a few other nice pieces for guitar and orchestra on that album too which I'm sure you will enjoy. Let us know what you think of the Goss concerto, the middle movement is quite beautiful and is actually an orchestrated version of his lovely piece for solo guitar the Maryleborne Elegy.
Yeah that's a good point. I do think there needs to be a distinction there. Beethoven's fifth symphony I know is a great, monumental work. But I just do not have to hear it again after hearing it again and again.
TBH I've never really been crazy about Rachmaninov's work in general. It's too "wallowy" and "static" if you know what I mean. And no offense to our Russian brothers and sisters but I've never really liked the work of Rachmaninov's idol Tchaikovsky either.

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