US Ivory Rules....

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Scot Tremblay
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US Ivory Rules....

Post by Scot Tremblay » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:20 pm

An article which may be of concern for musical instruments makers and owners...

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/feature ... vory-sales
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Mickey_C
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Mickey_C » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:31 pm

It's not surprising, it's already impossible to travel with brazilian rosewood guitars without the passports and selling ivory is already banned on e - b a y anyhow.

I hate to rain on people's parades, but I think the benefit to endangered species is worth such a small sacrifice by musicians.

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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Philosopherguy » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:38 pm

Mickey_C wrote:It's not surprising, it's already impossible to travel with brazilian rosewood guitars without the passports and selling ivory is already banned on e - b a y anyhow.

I hate to rain on people's parades, but I think the benefit to endangered species is worth such a small sacrifice by musicians.
You mean we can't pillage the earth and all its creatures for whatever we feel we desire at the time?!?!?! Darn... foiled again... How did that ever pass our hedonistic calculus and come into law?!?!

The article was very informative! Kudos on the post.

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Mickey_C
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Mickey_C » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:16 pm

Philosopherguy wrote:
Mickey_C wrote: Darn... foiled again... How did that ever pass our hedonistic calculus and come into law?!?!
Very well worded; I'll be borrowing that phrasing!

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Anthony Campanella
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Anthony Campanella » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:04 pm

Philosopherguy wrote: You mean we can't pillage the earth and all its creatures for whatever we feel we desire at the time?
We've already done that and worse, hence the untimely restrictions

Scot Tremblay
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Scot Tremblay » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:39 pm

Another interesting article sent by a friend:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... mmercial-b

Pay attention to this point: "Support Limited Sport-hunting of African Elephants:"...wonder how killing them is beneficial to endangered species?
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Mickey_C
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Mickey_C » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:44 pm

The problem with sport hunting is that it's big money - so frequently the hunts are done without full legality or the guides, desperate to fulfill their part of the bargain, lure protected refuge animals into unprotected areas. Oftentimes the hunters, even if well-wishers, are completely unaware of this. The dentist who shot Cecil the lion comes to mind, as does the owner of Jimmy John's.

So I do not support it; the park rangers should handle any culling that needs to happen.

Also it's been pointed out by numerous environmentalists of note that photo-safaris have always generated more money for the parks than revenues of hunting endangered species.

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bear
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by bear » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:01 pm

I just saw something on Antiques Roadshow. There was an object that was made with ivory and tortoise shell. They said that at one time it would have been very valuable, but now it's worthless and could not be sold legally.
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Pat Dodson
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Pat Dodson » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:36 pm

Mickey_C wrote: Also it's been pointed out by numerous environmentalists of note that photo-safaris have always generated more money for the parks than revenues of hunting endangered species.
Earlier this week a BBC Radio 4 programme, Big Game Theory presented another side to this, one where conservation in some African countries is dependent upon properly organised game hunting and things would be much worse without it. It is worth listening to (you might need first to download a BBC Media App.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b067x5w1

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lagartija
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by lagartija » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:27 am

bear wrote:I just saw something on Antiques Roadshow. There was an object that was made with ivory and tortoise shell. They said that at one time it would have been very valuable, but now it's worthless and could not be sold legally.
It was not old enough.
You could still buy tortoise shell in the Caribbean (St. Vincent and Grenadines) less than 8 years ago. I asked the "entrepreneur" who would buy these things from him, since they were not legal to carry into the US. He replied that the French tourists would buy the tortoise shell jewelry. :shock: It isn't legal in the EU, either... is it?! There were whole tortoise shells, earrings, bracelets, necklaces. When I visited China in 1980, there were stores full of carved ivory....all illegal to bring back to the US, even then. It is the same thing with antiquities; there is always someone who is willing to sell to a willing buyer who will smuggle it back into their home country. For some people, it is simply having something rare that floats their boat, so they are willing to break the law to be the person who has the rarest of the rare. :|
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guthriej
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by guthriej » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:09 pm

PyC saddles, hybrids or solid diamond like carbon are a huge up grade over Ivory. Tone, volume sustain harmonics. i know string gouging is not a real problem with nylon strings, but 0 gouging or nut wear too. Our saddles sell because they are vastly superior to the bone, or Ivory in tone, harmonics, sustain, volume etc. Also because they never gouge you can return them if you are not happy, and if you get a different guitar you can trade them in for a different style or hybrid or what ever the next one needs. Try any of that with Ivory or bone or any plastic saddle/nut material. Oh yea it is Hawksbill sea Turtle shell, and not tortoise shell. A Tortoise is a land dwelling animal, and a turtle lives in the ocean. If facts matter.

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lagartija
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by lagartija » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:35 pm

Yes facts matter....but tortoise shell is a material defined here as coming from tortoise or turtle shell.
The definition of the word "turtle" varies by region (in the Anglophone areas).
Where I live, turtle is used for all of the members of Chelonia (turtle, terrapin, tortoise) while in Britain, tortoise is used only for non-swimming chelonians, and turtle is used for chelonians found in the water.

I would have called the material turtle shell, but someone would have probably told me, correctly, that the material as used in decorative items is known as tortoiseshell or tortoise shell.
Oh well!
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Keith
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Keith » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:23 pm

Ivory seems to attract lunatics who love to make bizarro laws. The previous administration left us with a couple of bizarre dictates. One of the dictates banned selling what was once considered legal ivory yet one could go to Africa and bag 2 elephants. The other dictate says you can sell legal ivory within a state but not across state lines. The dictate is a federal one which makes the across state lines even more bizarre. It would be interesting to see if selling across state lines would warrant more time in prison than violating the Mann Act.
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Laudiesdad69
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:23 am

I have an ivory nut blank that I ordered from a legal source many years ago. Back then it cost me around 20 dollars. Wasn't expensive at all, but the company I bought it from now only has Mammoth ivory, which is like working with stone. Someday, when I get a really nice CG, I will use it. I just won't be able to travel with my guitar outside the US.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: US Ivory Rules....

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:44 am

Mickey_C wrote:Oftentimes the hunters, even if well-wishers, are completely unaware of this. The dentist who shot Cecil the lion comes to mind, as does the owner of Jimmy John's.
This suggests that Palmer the dentist was some kind of innocent dupe, but didn't he deliberately travel all the way from one continent to another for the sole purpose of killing stuff? I don't know exactly what he is but "well-wisher" isn't the term that springs to mind.

I've no idea what "Jimmy John's" is.

One of my students has a (classical) guitar with a brass nut - any comments?

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