help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

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todoms
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help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

Post by todoms » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:17 pm

HI -
I have the problem, that I have two parts for a new piece I have in progress, which I want to connect. Unfortunately the fist one is in g-minor, the second one in e-minor (*). So, I am searching for a modulation from g-minor to e-minor with "jazzy/brazilian"(**) sounding chords.

Right now I have the idea of:
g-minor e7#9 f# dim7 B7

But I am not total happy with that yet, and I lack of an idea for going back to g-minor.
Just to start again with g-minor after the e-minor part sounds too strange.

Can anyone help me with some sample chord progressions, especially an idea for going back again?
That would be great, many thanks in advance.

Cheers
Tobias


some background:
(*) There is no chance to transpose the e-minor part because of the open e string I use; and the g-minor part only can be transposed to "higher" tones (i.e a-minor, b-minor etc...), because in lower places it would become "unplayable".

(**) Recently, I started to compose pieces, which are more or less influenced by the last pieces I learned, mostly by south-american composers like Barrios Mangoré, Dilermando Reis, Antonio Lauro.

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llawrence
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Re: help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

Post by llawrence » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:04 pm

In jazz I've heard V substituted with flat II. Perhaps you can simply use an F major or F7 pivot chord? Then a D major or D7 can get you back to g minor.
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Gruupi
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Re: help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

Post by Gruupi » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:46 am

I played around for a minute, and came up with one solution.
First I went from Gm, to C to D to EM.
Getting back, I went Em, to C, D, G to Gm.

I've used the Major to minor move before, it's always been a cool sound to me.
I haven't used it to modulate per se.
When I have used it before, people will ask what chord that was, they are thinking it is something fancy, when it's really just Major to minor.
Give it a try, maybe you will like it, maybe you won't.

Bobbio84
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Re: help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

Post by Bobbio84 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:09 am

Why don't you try going down chromatically? Just play whatever was your last pattern in G minor ( assuming it was on the third fret) and then play it again f#m (on the second) and then Fm and finally land where you need to, if you're looking for Brazillian, Villa-Lobos used this trick all the time.

If you find that the straight one chord pattern to another is bland, just do a ii-V-i all the way down... in Gm (Gm/C7/F) then The same ii-V-i in F#m (f#m/B7/em)... Fm (fm/Bb7/Eb... And maybe even change this last one to a D#dim) .... land on em.

Try it out... You'd have to choose appropriate voicing obviously for each chord, but I think it would work.
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stevel
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Re: help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

Post by stevel » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:01 am

The obvious choice to me is to first change mode - from Gm to G Major.

Can the music you've written have a "major variation"?

This is a common scheme employed by classical composers and very often a section in one mode will simply be repeated with slight variations in the opposite mode.

Given the number of guitar works that have an A section in minor and then the B section in the Parallel Major, it should be pretty stylsitic to do so.

From a compositional standpoint, I'll tell you that most modern musicians don't take enough time to modulate. Modulations generally happen over the course of an entire phrase, period, or section, not just "a few chords". And that's why a lot of modulations don't sound convincing.

You should look up the following:

Common Chord Modulation

Direct (or Phrase) Modulation

Common Tone Modulation

However, since it's modern music, and "abrupt" modulations are part of the style, using just a few chords could work too.

My other compositional advice is don't stick two things together that don't belong together or that weren't conceived of together. You're basically just shoehorning two things in and they'll never sound "consistent" - even if you are able to make a smooth modulation, the resulting other sections still may not "go together".

It may be better to finish off the two elements as separate pieces, not just stick them together because you happen to have two sections of pieces you're working on roughly simultaneously and you want to make a longer piece...

todoms
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Re: help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

Post by todoms » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:16 pm

wow, thank you - gruupi, llawrence, bobbio84 and stevel for your very much helping answers.
I will play around with all your suggestions, and maybe at the end, stevel, I wont stick together both parts (I guess, it costs me more "power" on thinking how to link than to follow the first part - and find more melodies for the second part

Tobias

D.Cass
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Re: help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

Post by D.Cass » Sun May 01, 2016 3:41 am

I just discovered this. It really depends on the compositional style or rhythmic style as far as linking the to separate themes together. There are an endless amount of modulation one can create from Gminor to E minor. One would be Gm, G7, C, F# half dim., to B7. Another; Gm, G#dim, Am, A#dim, to B7. You would then get a nice chromatic bassline to the V of the final key. A little more creative would be Gm, C7, F7 ( the tri-tone of B7 and F7 are the same), to Em. Except I would use a F7b5, aka the Fr+6. With the final one you would have to be careful of the voicings and have to have strong melody.

todoms
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:48 pm
Location: Portugal & Germany

Re: help needed with modulation from g-minor to e-minor

Post by todoms » Fri May 13, 2016 4:01 pm

thank you, d. Cass!
That was very helpful, too. Not only for the already solved problem, but I can learn a lot from all your suggestions!

Tobias

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