Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

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Composers' Workshop
Theory and practice of composition and arranging for classical guitar, discussion of works in progress, etc.

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Max Karios

Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby Max Karios » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:47 pm

There is an instrument that we all know, but I won't mention its name. It is the one with the one-dimensional layout of pitches and the enhanced polyphonic capabilities. I am wondering whether it would by acceptable to have one as a workhorse in your stable in order to get a different perspective on things when composing. This could help with:

- exploring the inexhaustible domain of modulations
- experimenting with synthetic scales
- finding new solutions to contrapuntal problems
- getting different inspirations when noodling around than on guitar
- you name it

On the other hand you need something that resists you if you want to get stronger. Weightlifting with a toothbrush won't do the trick, neither does riding a bicycle downhill. If you try to find an easy way-out, you are reducing this most precious resistance. Now, there isn't really any shortage of resistance on guitar. The fretboard actually some type of maze with the additional feature that the path to the exit keeps changing. Is this more resistance than necessary? At the end of the day everyone has to decide for themselves whether owning the "other" instrument is the way to go. So I am not really interested in opinions, but in facts. Here is a test for those who have such an instrument:

1. Do you know the inversions of all triads and 4-note chords in different spacings and on different string sets on guitar?
2. Can you, at least to some extent, play immediately on guitar what you hear in your head?
3. Can you navigate the fretboard freely without getting stuck in some places?
4. Can you easily reduce and if necessary transpose the four-part counterpoint examples you find in all theory books to something playable on guitar?

And now the most important question:

5. If you answered "no" to any of the questions above, do you think you would have developed this skill if you had only ever used the guitar but not this other instrument?
Last edited by Max Karios on Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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andi33x
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Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby andi33x » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:23 pm

Now, after reading the post the second time I see that I had a completely wrong idea the first time. This is the drawback to not be a native English speaker. But you also are not :?

Now, my father has such an instrument with enhanced polyphonic capabilities.
I always saw that he had these capabilities which you wrote at the end. He was better than me (with my silent and harmless guitar). But with the years I also developped these capabilities at least partially and today I can say that there is not a "no" in the answers but maybe some definitive "perhaps"es.

At the end I am glad to have the guitar :D
There is nothing more beautiful than the sound of a guitar - maybe aside from that of two guitars (Frederic Chopin)

PeterLC

Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby PeterLC » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:42 pm

One-dimensional means - a dot. Two dimensions enable you to draw a line. Three dimensions can build a structure.

So, it's a dot. Wow. Tiny instrument. :wink: Still don't know what you mean though.... :|

Max Karios

Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby Max Karios » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:49 pm

andi33x wrote:Now, my father has such an instrument with enhanced polyphonic capabilities.
I always saw that he had these capabilities which you wrote at the end. He was better than me (with my silent and harmless guitar). But with the years I also developped these capabilities at least partially and today I can say that there is not a "no" in the answers but maybe some definitive "perhaps"es.


Thanks for your response. That sounds encouraging, even though I'm not completely sure whether your father also played guitar and you also play this other instrument. Maybe it is just a matter of setting the priorities right. I should make a definite list of what I want to achieve on guitar in the short term and the long term. When the daily work is done, I could use any additional time to do other things without running the risk of regretting it later. It mainly is the linear layout of the keyboard that makes me think I could come up with ideas that I wouldn't get on guitar. Seeing things from different perspectives always seems to be beneficial.

PeterLC wrote:One-dimensional means - a dot. Two dimensions enable you to draw a line. Three dimensions can build a structure.


Nope, sorry. The number of dimensions is the number of coordinates you need to determine the position of a point. A line in one-dimensional, just like low pitches on the left and high pitches on the right.

Whiteagle
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Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby Whiteagle » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:08 pm

Can someone please clarify what this workhorse/instrument is?


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andi33x
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Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby andi33x » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:25 pm

Whiteagle wrote:Can someone please clarify what this workhorse/instrument is?

So, when I understood it you can play the Chaconne with it very easy and my father played it in fact simply by sightreading. BTW he never had a guitar in his hand.
Right Max?
There is nothing more beautiful than the sound of a guitar - maybe aside from that of two guitars (Frederic Chopin)

Max Karios

Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby Max Karios » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:10 pm

andi33x wrote:So, when I understood it you can play the Chaconne with it very easy


Sure you can. You can play almost anything on it, except tricks.

andi33x wrote:BTW he never had a guitar in his hand.


:lol: You cheated. Well, we don't have so many funny threads in the composers' subforum. This seems to become a good one.

Whiteagle
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Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby Whiteagle » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:18 pm

it is acceptable for you to own the workhorse. ps i failed the test

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kloeten
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Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby kloeten » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:58 am

Max Karios wrote:
1. Do you know the inversions of all triads and 4-note chords in different spacings and on different string sets on guitar?
2. Can you, at least to some extent, play immediately on guitar what you hear in your head?
3. Can you navigate the fretboard freely without getting stuck in some places?
4. Can you easily reduce and if necessary transpose the four-part counterpoint examples you find in all theory books to something playable on guitar?


I completely failed this test.
I would say all jazz guitarists will answer 'yes' to quesions 1,2,3,4. I agree the keyboard is easier, but IMHO the jazz guitarists prove this can be learned?

Stephen Graham
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Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby Stephen Graham » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:08 pm

Funny , I thought he was talking about a banjo :) and all the while it was a pia--- "Bang ! "
Takamine C132S

Max Karios

Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby Max Karios » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:57 pm

kloeten wrote:I completely failed this test.


That is impossible. This test cannot be failed. Read question 5 again. I mentioned explicitely that this is the one that matters. Do you think you had to answer "no" to any of the questions before because you spent time on something else than improving your guitar skills?

If your answer to question 5 is "yes", i.e. points 1 to 4 are within reach for you, this means that there is a reason to regret your past behavior and shouldn't recommend the same to anyone else.

If your answer to question 5 is "no", i.e. points 1 to 4 are out of reach for you anyway, then everything seems fine. Maybe it is just not important enough to you to fully develop your potential. Or you are a victim of a limiting belief. Can there be any other reason? Rigorous goal setting maybe and still failing to hit the target?

ekoza

Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby ekoza » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:21 am

Max Karios wrote:

- exploring the inexhaustible domain of modulations
- experimenting with synthetic scales
- finding new solutions to contrapuntal problems
- getting different inspirations when noodling around than on guitar
Here is a test for those who have such an instrument:

1. Do you know the inversions of all triads and 4-note chords in different spacings and on different string sets on guitar?
2. Can you, at least to some extent, play immediately on guitar what you hear in your head?
3. Can you navigate the fretboard freely without getting stuck in some places?
4. Can you easily reduce and if necessary transpose the four-part counterpoint examples you find in all theory books to something playable on guitar?

And now the most important question:

5. If you answered "no" to any of the questions above, do you think you would have developed this skill if you had only ever used the guitar but not this other instrument?

My answers are
1. Yes
2. Yes but sometime miss it slightly
3. Yes
4. Yes for traditional harmony but struggle with music after 20th Century.
5. Yes (but basic piano knowlegde can b helpful)

Great way to evaluate ourself :ugeek:
Thanks.

Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk

6tones

Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby 6tones » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:41 pm

Yes too all the questions though #4 is very tricky to play on guitar lol.
I still have no idea what the OP is talking about as per the insturment... a piano??

Whiteagle
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Re: Use a workhorse with the forbidden name?

Postby Whiteagle » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:25 am

Yes the discussion is about a piano


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