Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Theory and practice of composition and arranging for classical guitar, discussion of works in progress, etc.
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Composers' Workshop
Theory and practice of composition and arranging for classical guitar, discussion of works in progress, etc.

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Paul Wegmann
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Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby Paul Wegmann » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:46 pm

Hi People,

I'm looking for some kind guitar player that would like to play and record a version of this Etude for classical guitar I composed the last year.
I've attached the sheet, and I'm all ears to receive suggestions and critics. You don't need to be kind with this, I need to grow up! hehe

Thank you!
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Cipher
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby Cipher » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:11 am

I played through it and I found it too difficult to play as written. It starts out with a nice idea but then goes into a harmonic area that doesn't make sense somehow. Your choice of sharps and flats seems arbitrary, like you really don't know what piece the key is in. Do you have any training in composition? Can you play this piece yourself? Perhaps you can post a midi sound file or something and I'll change my mind. I don't mean to be harsh but rather constructive in the sense of I want to know where you're coming from. All of this is just my opinion of course.

Thanks for sharing.

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Dave
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby Dave » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:15 pm

I just played through it too. Harmonically, it reminds me a little of the 5 pieces for guitar by Piazzola. I don't think there's anything wrong with your notation.

Cipher, Paul posted a recording at the jazz guitar forum: www.jazzguitar.be/forum/composition/437 ... uitar.html
Dave

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singularity
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby singularity » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:36 pm

I don't find the harmony nonsensical, I think it is within the realm of the intent of the composer, to create slightly dark, disharmonic space. I'm not sure I like the lack of the main theme, but you do have repeatable motive throughout. Although it still needs some polishing in essence I like the song.

What I don't like is your criticism of rules on Delcamp and person who gave you honest answer about the song, ON YOUR REQUEST, on that other forum. Just speak up your mind here, you'll find lots of likeminded people here. Some are not going to agree with you but how else are you going to grow. When you ask people for a favor (to play your song) you're more likely to get "traction" if you're kind and polite. As it is, I'd be reluctant to post recording of your song with suggestions/ criticism.

Paul Wegmann
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby Paul Wegmann » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:02 pm

singularity wrote:...I'm not sure I like the lack of the main theme, but you do have repeatable motive throughout. Although it still needs some polishing in essence I like the song.

What I don't like is your criticism of rules on Delcamp and person who gave you honest answer about the song, ON YOUR REQUEST, on that other forum. Just speak up your mind here, you'll find lots of likeminded people here. Some are not going to agree with you but how else are you going to grow. When you ask people for a favor (to play your song) you're more likely to get "traction" if you're kind and polite. As it is, I'd be reluctant to post recording of your song with suggestions/ criticism.


Yes, thanks for your answer.
About the lack of main theme, I find not necessary, because is an Etude, not a Sonata. Is a piece with pedagogical and technical issues, fingerings, dissonant chords (even in this tonal environment, where the harmony modulates freely), arpeggios, etc. We have a lot of etudes for instruments that actually don't have a main theme, and are constructed over arpeggios, fingerings and harmonic devices.
My criticism and comments in other forums are under my own responsibility, and each one is free to share thoughts, positives or negatives. I did'nt offend anybody, I didn't mention names nor nicknames. Barely situations and personal disagreements, that are completely normal, since we are human beings and we think in different ways. My criticism was not about people, as you said, is about words, ideas, and situations. You are exposing myself here (you don't have that right), ignoring I conctaced via PRIVATE message one of the moderators (about rules), and Cipher, the first replay to this thread, about my piece. I accepted the rules and I answer the questions privately.

I think, as a composer, I can be critic about critics too (we live in democratic countries, isn't it?), where we don't see any technical issue, and we receive questions, asking if we have training in composition or not. That's not a critic indeed, and don't makes me grow up.

Your discussion about form, and theme, was absolutely technical, we can talk about that and explain some "singularities" in order to make some differences between Etudes and other musical forms. We can discusse about harmony, modulation, dissonance, darkness and brighness moments in this piece, playability on classical guitar (I wrote this on electric guitar, originally, cause that reason I join this forum), etc etc.

Discussion about composition must to be technical. In other way, we would fall in low level discussions, everyone saying if like it or not, if the harmony is pretty or ugly... is you are good or bad composer... I hope we are not children.

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singularity
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby singularity » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:21 pm

I think neither one of us is doing you a favor by making this long argument but I have no axe to grind nor anything to gain or loose but I do need to pint out couple of things.
1. The moment you posted on other public forum you've exposed yourself. In addition Dave provided the link (not me) with the intent to inform other users about "how this song actually sounds" on Cypher's request. So, I didn't "uncover (neither has Dave) something hidden, secret, dishonest etc." per Mariam W definition of word "expose". It was already in public space.
2. I said 'not sure if I like the lack of main theme" not that etude in general should have one. It's like "all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs". There are examples of Etudes that have one, like famous Tarega's Etude. You do have right to make it any way you want it, and I have right to like that or not. That's all.

I think you're onto something with your music, it may need more direction and focus if you want larger audience but please try not to antagonize people that you ask for help. Your reply to this will tell me if you've learned anything from this exercise.

s

Paul Wegmann
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby Paul Wegmann » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:26 pm

Thank you for your point of view. I'm very sorry about the direction this discussion went, was not my initial intention. I'm just looking for some performer interested in record new repertoire, just that. If I said this or that in other forum, please forgive me, man, but it's totally out of thread.
The thing that frustrate myself is this kind of discussion, we are not talking about art. I'm not antogonizing anybody, I really don't need that. I really trust in my work, in my music. I'm just searching for a performer. You are totally free to share your feelings and thoughts about this piece, I really like that and I'm really open to that, but, please, let other forums issues out of here. I was very upset because I was critiziced about absolutely personal things, and not about music. That's the point. Let's talk about music, man! If you can talk more about direction and focus, I'll be really grateful. How you get into it on this kind of composition? What aspect of the piece you think is loosing direction, and how I can improve that? thanks and I apologize about misunderstood or wherever. Cheers!

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markodarko
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby markodarko » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:52 pm

Hi Paul, I don't know the politics of what's been going on in other threads. I took a look at the first few bars and I liked what I played. Did you have any specific fingerings in mind when you wrote it? Personally I prefer the sound of the piece when played up the neck as a barre on the 8th fret for the first few bars - for that "warmer" sound - and then moving to 1st position for the 5th bar for a brighter tone and perhaps louder dynamic. The only thing about that is that the 4th bar is a bit fiddly, fingering-wise, but not impossible. And as it's an etude it may be desirable for it to be difficult anyway?

It's easier to play starting in 3rd position, but for me personally I think the tone is nicer on the 8th. If you like I can record those first few bars in both positions to illustrate what I mean but I won't be able to do it until the w/e.

What are your thoughts?
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

Paul Wegmann
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby Paul Wegmann » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:39 pm

markodarko wrote:Hi Paul, I don't know the politics of what's been going on in other threads. I took a look at the first few bars and I liked what I played. Did you have any specific fingerings in mind when you wrote it? Personally I prefer the sound of the piece when played up the neck as a barre on the 8th fret for the first few bars - for that "warmer" sound - and then moving to 1st position for the 5th bar for a brighter tone and perhaps louder dynamic. The only thing about that is that the 4th bar is a bit fiddly, fingering-wise, but not impossible. And as it's an etude it may be desirable for it to be difficult anyway?

It's easier to play starting in 3rd position, but for me personally I think the tone is nicer on the 8th. If you like I can record those first few bars in both positions to illustrate what I mean but I won't be able to do it until the w/e.

What are your thoughts?


Hi Marko, thank you! we are talking about music, finally! :)
I really appreciate if you can record that bars, for sure! I played on first position that first bars because I like the richness of the open strings, but I'm pretty curious about your fingering proposal!
That difference will be, certainly, noticeable! On measure 11 I play on first position too, because the dynamic is Forte, in right hand we have the following fingering: t+r (for both E, on open strings) and after we have Index, and T+M. This fingering I used several times through the piece. The fourth bar you mentioned above, can be a good reason to play on first position, but if you can do it in other position, It's Ok!

Thank you again!

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David Belcher
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby David Belcher » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:15 pm

Paul Wegmann wrote:Hi People,

I'm looking for some kind guitar player that would like to play and record a version of this Etude for classical guitar I composed the last year.
I've attached the sheet, and I'm all ears to receive suggestions and critics. You don't need to be kind with this, I need to grow up! hehe

Thank you!

Very nice, Paul. I've played through it several times now and am really liking it more every time I play it. I may not have time to record it, but if I do I'll let you know.
"In music I think it's very, very dangerous if you start to compare and say, 'This is good, this is not good, this is only one possibility' . . . there are so many possibilities, but what is important is to be open to that." - Pavel Steidl

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mc1
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby mc1 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:16 pm

i liked it as well, but found it a little tough technically, especially the first fret barres like on the G# and F notes).

Paul Wegmann
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby Paul Wegmann » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:32 pm

Very nice, Paul. I've played through it several times now and am really liking it more every time I play it. I may not have time to record it, but if I do I'll let you know.


Wow! that's amazing man! Thank you very much! I'm curious to hear your performing!

I'll be waiting!

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markodarko
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby markodarko » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:13 am

David Belcher wrote:Very nice, Paul. I've played through it several times now and am really liking it more every time I play it. I may not have time to record it, but if I do I'll let you know.


Well if David's going to record it I'll bow out as I'm sure he'll do far better justice than I could right now! :casque:

As a matter of interest, did you try it at the 8th position for the warmer tone at the beginning, David? After playing those few bars a couple of times it turns out that whilst I prefer the tone up the neck, it's a much smoother transition when played in 3rd position so I'm preferring that position right now.

But, aside from the awkward fingering for two of the shifts when played up the neck, that could just be a limitation of my current technique so I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

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mc1
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby mc1 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:31 am

markodarko, did you try it with an open g in bar 1 (i guess i'd call that 2nd position), then 1st position for bar 2?

Lawler
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Re: Who wants to Record my Etude no.2?

Postby Lawler » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:16 am

Paul Wegmann wrote:I'm looking for some kind guitar player that would like to play and record a version of this Etude for classical guitar I composed the last year.
I've attached the sheet, and I'm all ears to receive suggestions and critics. You don't need to be kind with this, I need to grow up! hehe

Thank you!
I like it. I may have a go at recording it after I get to know it. It was a nice touch that you didn't encumber the piece with fingerings on the print music.


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