Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

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gjj
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Re: LLobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby gjj » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:03 pm

Very well done and thanks for all the info on the strings and no nails. I keep my nails quite soft so play mostly off the flesh. I paly electric bass and don't like the sound of nails on the bass (except for deliberate effect occasionally) so I have to strike a compromise between bass and guitar. I'm slowly getting there! :-)

Thanks again.

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Tonyyyyy
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Re: LLobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby Tonyyyyy » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:43 am

I liked your interpretation and sound quality very much. I'm now listening to Monserrat Figueras' moving version -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxJUPX5bBpU - yours gives a similar mood and sensibility. I 'm no-nails usually, though sometimes they accidentally grow and then I really enjoy the change in sound. I'm encouraged to try gut trebles (I quite like nylgut, but am not in love with it)

DaveLloyd
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Re: LLobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby DaveLloyd » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:54 am

Mercurio2688 wrote:As you know, Tárrega first played with nails and then cut his nails in the last period of his life.


I was reading about Dionysio Aguado somewhere recently, and it was mentioned that whilst he idolised his teacher Tárrega, there were some differences of style between them, notably that Tárrega later played without nails whilst Aguado preferred to play with them.

Your performance of "El Testamen d'Amelia" was certainly on of the most beautiful I have ever heard.

Are the mechanics of playing appoyando, and tirando fairly similar to playing with nails?

Also is it any more difficult to play pieces that need a lot more attack without nails?

Sorry for all the questions! :oops:

Dave
1975 Manuel G. Mayoral — Cedar Top

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RobMacKillop
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby RobMacKillop » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:19 am

Tárrega was certainly not Aguado's teacher...

DaveLloyd
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby DaveLloyd » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:53 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:Tárrega was certainly not Aguado's teacher...


Whoops! Sorry Rob! :oops:

That's what comes form posting in the wee early hours of the morning. I should have said Llobet — no idea why I said Aguado instead.

Dave

PS. Coincidentally, I think I had just finished listening to your own very excellent recording of Aguado's Seis Valses; No.4 in Am here:-
http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=99465 which is probably why Aguado stuck in my mind.

I am becoming very interested in the no-nails approach!
1975 Manuel G. Mayoral — Cedar Top

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RobMacKillop
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby RobMacKillop » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:02 pm

Haha. Don't worry, Dave, I've made far too many mistakes like that myself. I'm really pleased you like what Kacper is doing here. Such a beautiful player.

DaveLloyd
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby DaveLloyd » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:28 pm

RobMacKillop wrote:Haha. Don't worry, Dave, I've made far too many mistakes like that myself. I'm really pleased you like what Kacper is doing here. Such a beautiful player.


He certainly is!

Dave
1975 Manuel G. Mayoral — Cedar Top

Lawler
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby Lawler » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:42 pm

Very nice playing, Kacper.

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Mercurio2688
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Re: LLobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby Mercurio2688 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:39 am

DaveLloyd wrote:
Mercurio2688 wrote:As you know, Tárrega first played with nails and then cut his nails in the last period of his life.


I was reading about Dionysio Aguado somewhere recently, and it was mentioned that whilst he idolised his teacher Tárrega, there were some differences of style between them, notably that Tárrega later played without nails whilst Aguado preferred to play with them.

Your performance of "El Testamen d'Amelia" was certainly on of the most beautiful I have ever heard.

Are the mechanics of playing appoyando, and tirando fairly similar to playing with nails?

Also is it any more difficult to play pieces that need a lot more attack without nails?

Sorry for all the questions! :oops:

Dave


Hello Gentelmen. Thank you all so much for your kind words, I'm glad you like my playing.
DaveLloyd since you are reffering to the relation between Llobet and Tárrega let me translate you a paragraph from the book by Emilio Pujol "Tárrega: Ensayo biográfico"

But besides his admiration for Tárrega, his master, the esthetic conception of Llobet was not the same; it was different for natural conception reasons, age difference and context in which they lived. While Tárrega, in love with the purity of the classic quartet in it's homogeneous veriety, would have done a whole unity using the six strings of his instrument, Llobet, interested in the timbric diversirty of the orchestra, would have done one guitar from each string.

Original in Spanish
Pero a pesar de su profunda admiración por Tárrega, su maestro, el sentido estético de Llobet no era el mismo; difería por razones de natural concepción, diferencias de edad y circunstancias de amiebte. Y mientras Tárrega, enamorado de la pureza del cuarteto clásico en su homogénea variadad, hubiera hecho de las seis cuerdas de su instrumento una sóla unidad, Llobet, atraído por la diversidad de timbres de la orquesta, hubiera hecho de cada cuerda una guitarra distinta.

I'm Spanish so my english is not the best but I'm sure that someone can make a better translation. Also Pujol's language is very poetic.
To answers some of your questions (allways based on my own experience):
Are the mechanics of playing appoyando, and tirando fairly similar to playing with nails?
Yes, they are almost equal. I play apoyando allways that I can. It is a characteristic of the Tárrega School. It is said that Pujol did the tremolo apoyando (I can't do that).

Also is it any more difficult to play pieces that need a lot more attack without nails?
In my experience yes. The flesh has a much bigger resistance to the string due to 1) it's surface is bigger than the nail and 2) even if the surfaces were equal, the friction coefficient of flesh is much higher than the nail.
Pujol actually says that the transition of nail to flesh is much harder than from flesh to nail: due to the friction.
Now, why do I play with flesh? (And I think also others) The purity of the sound. To my ears, to Tárrega, to Pujol, to Sor -and even to Fuenllana, who in his Orphenica Lyra from 1554 gets pretty mystic about this issue- the flesh can produce the purest sound, and the contact of flesh with flesh -fingertip with a gut string- is an amazing experience. This is my personal perception and I don't want to start a useless 400 year old debate here.
I have to add that I still have not developed a sound that satisfies me 100% but I'm working on it, and of course, as I said in a previous post, the flesh sound needs to be developed. The first weeks/months after cutting my nails, my flesh sound was dreadful.
I cut my nails almost a year ago so my oppinions on this subject now are not based on a wide experience tho.
I'm sure Rob has something to add.
I hope it helps.
Best.
Kacper
-Daniel Bernaert 2011 after Torres 1864 "La Suprema". Spruce/Mapple
-Juan Montes 2010. Cedar/Madagascar Rosewood
-Hijos de González ca.1890 Spruce/Walnut ( Sons of Francisco González, Madrid) [SOLD]
-Ramirez 1965 Spruce/Indian Rosewood [SOLD]

DaveLloyd
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby DaveLloyd » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:51 am

Hello Kacper,

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions.

The paragraph from Emilio Pujol's biography which you kindly translated, was actually quoted in the article which I was recently reading online (I have tried to find it again, but I was unable to).

Your English incidentally, sounds perfect to me. I wish my Spanish was even fractionally as good!

I can imagine how difficult it must have been to make the transition from nails to flesh. It must have felt very strange to begin with, but now your dedication has really paid off and you have developed a lovely sound.

It's good to see that you have developed your technique to the point of being ready to perform/give concerts again.

For me, I am just returning to the guitar after a lapse of several decades (I was at the beginner/intermediate) level. After several months I am just reaching the point where I nearly have a full set of nails, and I really don't have the courage to lose them quite yet.

Having become aware of what guitarists like you and Rob are accomplishing I definitely want to listen to a lot more guitar music played with flesh, and gut/silk strings. I noticed further up this thread, you mentioned that Rob has a website, so I will certainly be checking that out (just not tonight — It's 3:40am again here — so much for my early night)!

So, thanks again for your very helpful answers!

Dave
1975 Manuel G. Mayoral — Cedar Top

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RobMacKillop
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby RobMacKillop » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:37 am

Hi Dave,

Here's the website, half devoted to my work, half to that of flesh players over the decades: http://rmclassicalguitar.com

Rob

DaveLloyd
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby DaveLloyd » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:15 pm

Thanks Rob,

Just enjoyed listening to Josefina Robledo playing Capricho Arabe on your site (I hadn't heard of her before).

I'll immerse myself in your site tonight when I have the time — Looks like there's a lot of very interesting material there. Can't wait!

Dave
1975 Manuel G. Mayoral — Cedar Top

Christopher Burnham
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby Christopher Burnham » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:41 am

Beautiful! i really enjoyed this. Maybe I will have to chop off my nails and give it a go sometime!

Carlos
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby Carlos » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:39 am

Beautiful performance! Thank you for sharing and good luck with your playing without nails!

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Isabelle Frizac
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Re: Llobet, Miguel - El testament d'Amèlia played without nails with silk and gut strings

Postby Isabelle Frizac » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:50 pm

You have a nice sound! Bravo.

With gut strings, the concern is that they s' wear out quickly and are quite costly.

Beautiful performance sharing .Merci.


(I play without nails) :wink:

:bye: Isabelle
keep hope !
Bastien Burlot 2014" special anniversary" n°1, Pappalardo 1982, Antonio Ruiz Lopez 1974, and other instruments ...;-)


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