The guitar as an investment

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Guitar-ded
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Guitar-ded » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:40 pm

Guther wrote:
eyedoc wrote:The only time you want to talk about classical guitars as investments is when you are telling your wife you are getting (yet) another guitar!
I like that strategy, Ron, even if it lands us in the dog house for a bit :evil:
Get...ting ?
Don't you mean Got?
Getting better bit by bit, day by day.

khayes
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by khayes » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:43 pm

Guitar-ded wrote:
Guther wrote:
eyedoc wrote:The only time you want to talk about classical guitars as investments is when you are telling your wife you are getting (yet) another guitar!
I like that strategy, Ron, even if it lands us in the dog house for a bit :evil:
Get...ting ?
Don't you mean Got?
Tell...ing ?
Don't you mean "Asking" ? :D
Ken

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Guitar-ded
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Guitar-ded » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:45 pm

Y'know, sometimes it's easier to be forgiven than it is to get permission.
Getting better bit by bit, day by day.

Guther
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Guther » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:16 am

Guitar-ded wrote:Y'know, sometimes it's easier to be forgiven than it is to get permission.
The force is strong in you... :lol:
Guther

Jabberwocky
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Jabberwocky » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:16 pm

]If I were an investing guitarist I would put the money in the stock market and pray hard that I made the right choice.

If I am just a guitarist I will put my money in a guitar that wins my heart, enjoy it and pray real hard that I made the right choice. And if I didn't, oh well, I could have done worse things like putting it in the stock market.

Just enjoy the guitar that you can afford and because you want it. If you really wish to play the game try to spot rising young stars. What they choose to play will be the next hot gotta-have-that guitar. It may just may be some young star from the PRC choosing to play an instrument made by a luthier from the PRC. I'd take a serious look at PRC luthiers as an investment strategy. Bream-Romanillos, Williams-Smallman, Russell-Damman, Barrueco-Ruck, Fisk-Humphrey, Vieaux-Wagner, Vidovic-Redgate, Tennant-Jacobson, etc.

IMHO. And yes, I am tweaking you a little. Don't forget to have fun.

Joe de V
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Joe de V » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:20 am

From an investment point of view I will not spent any money of a CG regardless of who made it. It is my understanding that the most expensive guitars are made by well-known Luthiers and when purchased they are to be used by the person regardless of his/her professional status.
I did read a story a while back about a CG found by a garbage company collector on his collection-route and the instrument was later confirmed as being one of Andres Segovia early years CG instrument. The instrument was purchased from the collector and donated to the New York City Metropolitan Museum. This would be one-of-a-kind situation where a CG was an instrument of non-monetary value but significant due to the later very famous previous owner and player.

nmshu1
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by nmshu1 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:54 am

I am MBA. I will tell you the truth:

Investment activities always focus on highest rate of investment/return. Usually guitar is not the one with it like a car.

Almost all musical instruments value will not increase a lot in short period of time.

So guitar as a musical instrument is just an instrument only...Classical guitar is a small world and do not have great potential for investment....
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650 Cedar/BRW
German V Rubio Concert 635 Spruce/Maple
Kenny Hill Performance 630 Spruce+Cedar/Maple
Juan Hernandez Torres 640 Spruce/IRW
Cordoba C9 650 Cedar/Mahogany
Sweet Tone 640 Spruce/RW

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Contreras
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Contreras » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:19 am

petermc61 wrote:Only is you accept some risk and then only with instruments that are truly collectable. If don't regard either of the luthiers you mention (though favourites of mine) as truly collectable. In that category I would probably only place Torres, Hauser 1 and Bouchet. For the rest I don't think you can necessarily be confident your investment will outstrip inflation.
I beg to include (you guessed it Peter) ... Simplicio. Beautiful instruments. master craftsmanship, and limited numbers. Wish I had one.

Best

Simon
Put down the bagpipes ...
... and no one gets hurt.

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Krokmou
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Krokmou » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:50 am

Thank you everyone for the answer. A lot of interesting thoughts !

Don't you think guitars from luthier such as Field with already acquired reputation will increase in value even more when he will be retired ? Thought it was a little bit like Friederich.

Seems that some of you thought that I asked the question because I was interested to invest, but in fact it was just a question of curiosity. In fact I'm at the moment doing a world tour, completely desinvesting my humble savings :wink: (and not playing the guitar unfortunately)
Olivier Pozzo - French luthier - Spruce double-top guitar

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petermc61
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by petermc61 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:17 am

As a general rule the value of a Field new to the market is already well beyond his ex-workshop price. So if you acquire it for that price it is likely to drop a bit with use. Only those who acquire ex factory and them move it on while new or mint condition will likely make money. In any event, that is not a long term investment.

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petermc61
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by petermc61 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:18 am

Deleted duplicate.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:02 pm

I don't know about guitars as investments, unless it's like a vintage Gibson or Fender, and then only certain models. I try to buy my guitars used, so that way I can break pretty close to even when I resell privately, not through a dealer. I've sold all but two of my guitars now, and as they were used when I bought em, I made money on one, lost 2 hundred bucks on the other. They are just kind of like a piggy bank, albeit one that the children steal money out of from time to time for the ice cream man he he. As long as you break even, you're doing better than the less than 1 percent that the banks pay on a savings account, and you can't make music with the money per se. At least this way, you can enjoy it.

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eadiaz
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by eadiaz » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:13 pm

Interesting discussion. My hypothesis is that the vast majority of guitars are not an attractive financial investment.

When I looked on Google Scholar for studies on this question, I did not find anything on guitars, but I did see a couple of papers looking at violins as a financial investment. One of these papers stated that the S&P 500 has had a real return of 6.3% from 1875 to 2012. A data set of 320 old Italian violins (Stradivari and the like) was analyzed, and the real return of the old violins was 3.3% for time period from 1875 to 2012. The paper can be found searching for "Fiddling with Value by Graddy and Margolis".

I would argue that it's hard for a guitar to appreciate in value at 6.3% per year to beat the S&P 500 benchmark. I'm sure there are some exceptions for instruments of historical significance in near mint condition... but not many.

For fun, we could look at a Kohno 30 from 1975. A Kohno 30 had a list price of 300,000 JPY. That list price translated into USD 1,016. (In 1975 about the exchange rate was about 295 JPY to 1 USD.) If I had taken that $1,106 and invested it in the S&P 500 in 1975, I would have about $13,234 in 2017. I see a Kohno 30 from 1975 on the large auction site that had a best offer accepted under $5,500. So while the seller of that Kohno 30 1975 probably enjoyed that instrument a lot, in purely financial terms other investments outperformed the Kohno 30.
-------------
"I love the guitar for its harmony; it is my constant companion in all my travels." -- N. Paganini

Guther
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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Guther » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:46 am

Nice analysis, eadiaz. I think it comes down to what the definition of "return" means. In financial terms, which this thread is about, it makes little sense. But then again, the "alternate return", enjoyment, has a lot to do with another investment: effort.
Guther

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Re: The guitar as an investment

Post by Grooveman JS » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:08 pm

There're definitely better ways to invest your money.......even for Hauser 1 or Torres guitars; the only way you can get ahead in the game with guitars is if you can get 1 with substantially discounted price.....otherwise its dicey
Masaki Sakurai MA-RF
Antonio Picado Concierto DT

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