Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

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souldier
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby souldier » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:52 pm

+1 on the C10. It was the exact guitar I had in mind when reading the original post. I have played several C9/C10s and can confidently say they perform well above their price point. I have even compared them alongside luthier made instruments and can say they can hold their own. Bradford Werner from "This is Classical Guitar" has reviewed the C9/10/12 on Youtube and has favorable impressions of all 3, but the C10 would be my personal favorite.

Here's what I like about the C10:
-Traditional "Spanish" tone. It's fan braced/traditionally built. Distinctly deep basses, warm yet clear trebles, good sustain. I personally recommend the Spruce over Cedar.
-Surprisingly good volume/projection even when compared to higher price points/luthier made instruments.
-Great playability, which is why it's great for beginners or those starting later in life. The thinner c-shaped neck profile feels more comfortable and less chunky than your typical classical guitar neck, though people of different hand sizes might have different preferences. They also typically come with a lower than average string action, and there is always room left on the saddle if one desires to go even lower. The truss rod also makes set up easier.
-Excellent workmanship
-Widely available, and can easily be tried in person. You can also get a good return policy on them to be safe, and they are easy to resell.

If one has small hands, the C10 Parlor is no slouch either and is quite comparable to the full size C10. At this price point, you can't go wrong with the C10 and it's very hard to beat.
"Success grants its rewards to a few, but is the dream of the multitudes.
Excellence is available to all, but is accepted only by a few." - Christopher Parkening

2014 James Frieson | Swiss Spruce . Madagascar Rosewood

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RobMacKillop
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby RobMacKillop » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:54 pm

Good post, souldier.

Adam
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby Adam » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:24 pm

Yamaha GC22 and Kremona Fiesta are options I would strongly consider at that price point.

Horologium
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby Horologium » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:19 pm

Well, considering where I live and what's available to go look at, I think I'll focus on the Cordoba C10. They seem to be out of stock everywhere so I will have to order one sight unseen. At least guitar center has a decent return policy if it turns out that I get a dud...

Which brings me to the next decision: spruce or cedar, and how to choose when you have no experience to base it on?

Barry

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RobMacKillop
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby RobMacKillop » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:14 pm

Sweeping generalisations here, but:

Spruce: more variety of tone, but can take a year or two to break in, so expect changes

Cedar: more or less broken in from the start, warm sounds, but less variety

I like both, so recommend you get one of each :D

Adam
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby Adam » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:33 pm

As a beginner, I would default to cedar.

nmshu1
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby nmshu1 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:53 pm

I would recommend
1. Córdoba C9 spruce or cedar
Based on your left hand span: 650 or 630, 650 with standard nut width 52 or narrower
2. Córdoba C10 spruce or cedar
Same as C9

So you can find the guitar suitable for you within your budget. (12 different guitars)
Córdoba C9/C10 are excellent for beginners and intermediate level players....
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650 / Juan Hernandez Torres 640 / German V. Rubio Concert 635
Kenny Hill Performance 630 / Córdoba C9 650 / Sweet Tone 640

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souldier
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby souldier » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:51 pm

Horologium wrote:Well, considering where I live and what's available to go look at, I think I'll focus on the Cordoba C10. They seem to be out of stock everywhere so I will have to order one sight unseen. At least guitar center has a decent return policy if it turns out that I get a dud...

Which brings me to the next decision: spruce or cedar, and how to choose when you have no experience to base it on?

Barry


The C10 tends to already be a warmer/bass heavy guitar, so I think the Spruce balances that out while cedar may have trebles that struggle more to keep up with the basses. I've tried several spruce C10's and they had that good balance of warmth and clarity. Regardless, I think you'd be happy with either one. When I was first starting out in classical guitar, my assumption was that Spruce = Clear/Cold and Cedar = Round/Warm, but it gets more complex than this. What sets Spruce apart and what makes it the preferred top wood for many of the old builders is that not only does it have better separation of voices, but it has a wider tonal palette or more color and character to the sound. For this reason I gravitate toward Spruce, though I first used to belong to the cedar camp. In the end I'd say neither is better, and it boils down to personal preference. In summary:
->Spruce basses tend to have a powerful focus and firmness. Spruce trebles are clear and more sustaining, while being more colorful/complex. The extra clarity could require more precise technique.
->Cedar basses tend to be deeper, but looser and less articulate. Trebles are rounder/warmer that focus more on the fundamental with less color. Cedar might sound fuller and more open out of the gate. The warmth can help to cover up flaws and mistakes.

Now these are generalities. I believe the design of the guitar has a far greater influence on the sound than the species of wood used. The C10, whether spruce or cedar tends to be a warm guitar right out of the gate and the differences are actually very subtle. If you have trouble choosing, you may be able to find a place that can ship both to you, in which you can simply keep the one you like more.
"Success grants its rewards to a few, but is the dream of the multitudes.
Excellence is available to all, but is accepted only by a few." - Christopher Parkening

2014 James Frieson | Swiss Spruce . Madagascar Rosewood

Horologium
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Location: Portland Oregon

Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby Horologium » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:40 am

Well, I did it...

A Cordoba C10 with cedar top is on its way to me (or will be when they're in stock) thanks for all the help everyone! I look forward to my journey into finally learning guitar after all these years...

Barry

Joe de V
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby Joe de V » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:01 am

There are many options when you are searching for a $1000. CG within the American market. You won't find a luthier-made instrument in that range but there are many quality factory made instruments that will fit that budget. The better known names like Cordoba - Manuel Rodriguez and Yamaha take a good percentage of the new market sales in that price range but there are good bargains if you know what your are looking for in the Used market. The largest seller for Used CG on the internet appears to be the giant chain Guitar Center.
I have found very good Used CG within their nation wide stores. The three labels mentioned above are very well represented in their Used CG selection. A few Used luthirer-made instrument also are part of their Used stock but again their Used price for them may very well exceed the $1,000 limit. One feature that I like of their store is they will give a full return - no-restocking fee - if you are not satisfied with the instrument within the return period. Their web site allows you to select "Used Classical Guitars" and the price range to eliminate searching for other Used stock that do not meet your price range. That is a great time-saver. Some of their higher priced CG are from makers that are not found in the USA market. I have purchased some of them with very good results. Each store listed can be reach by phone to ask more details about the instrument. Hope this will be of some help.

MarkInLA
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby MarkInLA » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:05 am

RobMacKillop wrote:It's about time we had a watchmaker here...


Good to see you on the forum, Barry. You have a lot to choose from, thanks to the above comments. I'd be interested in the R2 and the C10.


If not too late, look for 'open box' sale prices. All that it means is item was initially taken out at the store it was shipped to and to be picked up at and buyer may have played it there, or a few days at home and changed his mind, which can be based on allot of things; unexpected size, weight, colors of wood, case, etc, and passed on it, with G C's 90 day return policy/no questions asked/still under warrantee...I got my C10 this way as well as an Ibanez archtop and could not tell the diff between it and a virgin one still in box from the maker ). Either way, Up to you..... Mark

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RobMacKillop
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby RobMacKillop » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:33 am

He's ordered a C10, guys. Good choice, Barry. Now find a teacher. BTW, I teach via Skype :)

acmost9
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby acmost9 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:41 am

Good choice original poster, congrats. I'll jump in here post decision since I actually have C10s Cedar & Spruce. I've had the Cedar about 15 months & the Spruce less than two months. If you're like anybody else, you'll eventually probably say, "Hmmm Cedar, wonder what Spruce sounds like?" and vice versa etc etc.

I really just wanted to add that I think the quoted post below pretty much nails it for me. I'd been wanting to post about cedar/spruce even though I know it's been done to death & I would say no two guitars are alike even factory made, so there's other factors that come in to play but if "sweeping generalizations"(I borrowed) can be made, these points below are close for me. For me & my two guitars, the cedar does sound more open and perhaps more forgiving & the tone is perhaps a little more blended, whatever that means. For whatever reason, for now I feel like I'm pay more attention to my technique on the Spruce, it's a little tighter sounding & this guitar is a little bit 'harder' to play but I'm really enjoying the clarity & separation of the voices. Not better or worse, just different. Again congrats!

One thing I would say, when you get the guitar…if & I only say if it's a little hard to play(not saying it will be!) try a set of Normal Tension strings like EJ45s or whatever, you'll lose some volume and some boldness but what you lose in that is made up for in ease of playability, an argument for another day. Enjoy!


souldier wrote:
The C10 tends to already be a warmer/bass heavy guitar, so I think the Spruce balances that out while cedar may have trebles that struggle more to keep up with the basses. I've tried several spruce C10's and they had that good balance of warmth and clarity. Regardless, I think you'd be happy with either one. When I was first starting out in classical guitar, my assumption was that Spruce = Clear/Cold and Cedar = Round/Warm, but it gets more complex than this. What sets Spruce apart and what makes it the preferred top wood for many of the old builders is that not only does it have better separation of voices, but it has a wider tonal palette or more color and character to the sound. For this reason I gravitate toward Spruce, though I first used to belong to the cedar camp. In the end I'd say neither is better, and it boils down to personal preference. In summary:
->Spruce basses tend to have a powerful focus and firmness. Spruce trebles are clear and more sustaining, while being more colorful/complex. The extra clarity could require more precise technique.
->Cedar basses tend to be deeper, but looser and less articulate. Trebles are rounder/warmer that focus more on the fundamental with less color. Cedar might sound fuller and more open out of the gate. The warmth can help to cover up flaws and mistakes.

Now these are generalities. I believe the design of the guitar has a far greater influence on the sound than the species of wood used. The C10, whether spruce or cedar tends to be a warm guitar right out of the gate and the differences are actually very subtle. If you have trouble choosing, you may be able to find a place that can ship both to you, in which you can simply keep the one you like more.

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Gregory Gleason
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby Gregory Gleason » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:09 pm

Always look for used instruments. I've seen some great deals on craigslist.
1994 Kohno Special (spruce/Brazillian)
2002 Hill Munich (spruce/Indian Rosewood)
1999 Hill Madrid (cedar/Indian Rosewood)
1972 Ramirez 1a

MessyTendon
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Re: Need advice on $1000 guitar purchase in the US

Postby MessyTendon » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:04 am

Raimundo guitars are nice if you go up a bit in price.


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