Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

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amy3000
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Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby amy3000 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:40 am

I'm considering buying a 615mm Player. I have a 628mm Player which I like a lot. I have a 615mm Cordoba Cadet and find it easier with the arthritis in my hand as well as my small hands but I'd like something nicer.

The Player I currently have is cedar and I do enjoy what sounds like a warm tone to me. That being said, I've never played a spruce one.

I'm curious if anyone who has played both might be able to describe their impressions.

MAK
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby MAK » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:27 am

Amy,
I sent you a private message.

Michele

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souldier
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby souldier » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:28 pm

Haven't played the KH player, but I played a Kenny Hill Estudio Cedar alongside an Estudio Spruce. Interestingly they exhibited the typical characteristics of spruce and cedar. The Cedar sounded fuller, warmer and more open. The spruce had those powerful focused basses with bright, tight sounding trebles. In that moment, I definitely preferred the Cedar, but I'd imagine I'd prefer the spruce over the long run.

If you already like Cedar, it would probably be the safest option to stick with it. The clarity of spruce requires more precise technique and better tone production for sure, which may be a problem if arthritis is getting in the way of your playing. I prefer spruce overall for its wider tonal palette and clarity, which I think is more versatile for a wide variety of repertoire, but I can also be happy with Cedar as well.
"Success grants its rewards to a few, but is the dream of the multitudes.
Excellence is available to all, but is accepted only by a few." - Christopher Parkening

2014 James Frieson | Swiss Spruce . Madagascar Rosewood

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amy3000
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby amy3000 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:13 pm

I still have not decided yet. There are some sound samples (commercial site can't put up link) that compare them. I asked my teacher and my brother (he plays bass but has discerning ear) to listen to them. Both of them have a preference for the spruce. A local shop has a couple of players in stock in 640mm and 650mm one in each wood. I'm not sure how much it will help but maybe I'll drop by and compare them.

I'm sure I'll be happy either way but maybe it's time for a change, ie. spruce.

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Matthew Stidham
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby Matthew Stidham » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:12 pm

I have yet to play a Hill that I didn't enjoy. The spruce, in my opinion, will likely sound a bit brighter. But as is true with guitars, every one sounds different. Spend some time playing them if at all possible. See if you can have a trial period with the guitar before being locked into the purchase.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

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amy3000
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby amy3000 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:05 pm

I bought the spruce. I'm very happy with it. There's a little problem with the nut I've been discussing in the Luthier's forum but it will get taken care of. It has lovely grain. I'm not sure what that says about the quality of this particular piece of wood but it's sure pretty. It's Engelmann spruce. Maybe having a new guitar will spur me on to making a new recording I can post.
20170102_114714.jpg
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Philosopherguy
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby Philosopherguy » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:42 pm

Congratulations on the guitar! I saw your video of the pinging. I'm sure it's easy to fix and they will sort it out for you. Looking forward to a video!
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby Tomzooki » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:57 pm

amy3000 wrote:I bought the spruce. I'm very happy with it. There's a little problem with the nut I've been discussing in the Luthier's forum but it will get taken care of. It has lovely grain. I'm not sure what that says about the quality of this particular piece of wood but it's sure pretty. It's Engelmann spruce. Maybe having a new guitar will spur me on to making a new recording I can post.
20170102_114714.jpg


I don't think it is Englemann spruce. Englemann tends to be much more creamy white, and the lines of the grain are much less contrasting. KH was using Euro spruce for the Estudio and Player, but maybe he changed, that wood makes me think it could be Sitka or Lutz. The later is an excellent wood.
Benoît Raby, Engelmann sp/Ziricote
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amy3000
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby amy3000 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:14 am

I was just going by what it says on the New World website as I don't really know a thing about wood. I just looked at Savage guitars and his website says European spruce as well as describing it like this, "Incredibly, the Spruce tops have silk rays or medullar rays throughout". Hill's website must be out of date or in error. I trust the accuracy of Sayage's website.

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souldier
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby souldier » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:17 am

amy3000 wrote:I bought the spruce. I'm very happy with it.20170102_114714.jpg


Could you share any thoughts on how the sound compares to your Cedar NWP and what you like/don't like about either one?
"Success grants its rewards to a few, but is the dream of the multitudes.
Excellence is available to all, but is accepted only by a few." - Christopher Parkening

2014 James Frieson | Swiss Spruce . Madagascar Rosewood

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amy3000
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby amy3000 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:37 am

It was interesting because a friend came over with her 628mm spruce Player. So we had 3 of them, 1 cedar and 2 spruce. She's within the return period for her guitar and is going to take it back and order a 615mm after playing mine. My impressions are given that I don't have the most discerning of ears. Her spruce sounded bright, overly bright for my tastes. My new spruce seemed a bit brighter than the cedar but not nearly as bright as my friend's. I think the spruce sounds more precise if that makes any sense and the cedar is perhaps warmer. They're both resonant. Of course they have totally different strings on them too which probably makes a difference.

All things being equal, I'd be happy with either of them. But the smaller one feels better to play. If my spruce, however, had been as bright as my friend's I might not have been so happy. Richard Sayage has some nice comparison recordings on his website of all the sizes of the Players that are worth a listen. That made me lean towards the spruce.

Actually I trusted my brother's ears more. Here are his comments on the cedar/spruce Player comparison.
615mm: "I like the spruce better. The cedar seems to have more of a "thumpy" attack and less sustain. The spruce has a cleaner transient attack and more sustain, making for a more pleasing tone IMO."

628mm: "I like the spruce again in these examples. The cedar again has a thumpy attack, and in this recording it has a "uh-ooo" tonal quality. Both of those make it a bit fatiguing to listen to compared to the spruce. The spruce has a more neutral, cleaner and pleasing tone. Perhaps this might explain why the spruce could be less forgiving; less of ones playing masked by tonal anomalies? Personally, I'd go for the cleaner, more neutral tone. I think over time it's clarity would get you playing with better technique."

WoodNString
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Re: Kenny Hill New World Player 615mm spruce or cedar

Postby WoodNString » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:37 pm

Kenny Hill seems fairly responsive to email so I would ask them directly what type of spruce it is. It's possible they changed the type over the years. Englemann is between euro spruce and cedar tonally. I think it gives one the best of both world's but I also have to admit I ended up with one of each.


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