Yamaha GC82 S/C

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Beowulf
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Beowulf » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:03 am

petermc61 wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
nmshu1 wrote:
My philosophy is expensive guitars should use lower tension strings like D'Addario EJ45 to get very good results. Otherwise cheaper guitars are good enough...
I very much doubt that it is possible to assess the Yamaha GC82S/C with a specific set of strings unless you purchase the guitar. I do not know what strings were used for the Youtube performances noted above, though I suspect the Berta Rojas used Savarez Alliance/Corum HT.
I am curious why you think Berta Rojas uses Alliance trebles?

Peter
On the Savarez site below the "Berta-Rojas" page with her pictures and text, there is a section that reads: "They use it" and a picture of the Alliance/Corum strings. Also if you check the page for "ALLIANCE CORUM HIGH TENSION 500AJ" you will see the same note and her picture below. So, just a guess... :mrgreen:
1971 Yamaha GC-10

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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by nmshu1 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:09 am

Beowulf wrote:
petermc61 wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
I very much doubt that it is possible to assess the Yamaha GC82S/C with a specific set of strings unless you purchase the guitar. I do not know what strings were used for the Youtube performances noted above, though I suspect the Berta Rojas used Savarez Alliance/Corum HT.
I am curious why you think Berta Rojas uses Alliance trebles?

Peter
On the Savarez site below the "Berta-Rojas" page with her pictures and text, there is a section that reads: "They use it" and a picture of the Alliance/Corum strings. Also if you check the page for "ALLIANCE CORUM HIGH TENSION 500AJ" you will see the same note and her picture below. So, just a guess... :mrgreen:
Sometimes, when you get used to the special strings, you can have a very good judgement about the special strings used...

For example, D'Addario strings, Savarez Crystal Corum, Candiga, Alliance, Augustine Imperial/Regal, La Bella 2001 series....

Every special brand has its special character ......
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Beowulf
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Beowulf » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:07 am

nmshu1 wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
petermc61 wrote:
I am curious why you think Berta Rojas uses Alliance trebles?

Peter
On the Savarez site below the "Berta-Rojas" page with her pictures and text, there is a section that reads: "They use it" and a picture of the Alliance/Corum strings. Also if you check the page for "ALLIANCE CORUM HIGH TENSION 500AJ" you will see the same note and her picture below. So, just a guess... :mrgreen:
Sometimes, when you get used to the special strings, you can have a very good judgement about the special strings used...

For example, D'Addario strings, Savarez Crystal Corum, Candiga, Alliance, Augustine Imperial/Regal, La Bella 2001 series....

Every special brand has its special character ......
Quite so...I have used D'Addario for over 20 years and know them well...at least on my 1971 Yamaha GC-10.
1971 Yamaha GC-10

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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by nmshu1 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:38 am

Beowulf wrote:
nmshu1 wrote:
Beowulf wrote:
On the Savarez site below the "Berta-Rojas" page with her pictures and text, there is a section that reads: "They use it" and a picture of the Alliance/Corum strings. Also if you check the page for "ALLIANCE CORUM HIGH TENSION 500AJ" you will see the same note and her picture below. So, just a guess... :mrgreen:
Sometimes, when you get used to the special strings, you can have a very good judgement about the special strings used...

For example, D'Addario strings, Savarez Crystal Corum, Candiga, Alliance, Augustine Imperial/Regal, La Bella 2001 series....

Every special brand has its special character ......
Quite so...I have used D'Addario for over 20 years and know them well...at least on my 1971 Yamaha GC-10.
For example, Augustine Imperial red: similar sound on my different guitars. Same as D'Addario and La Bella 2001 medium tension.
Otto Vowinkel Concert,
German V. Rubio Concert

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Beowulf
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Beowulf » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:30 pm

Back to the original topic: The GC82S/C are custom made. Search for "Yamaha GC series: Visiting Custom Shop" for a Youtube video.
1971 Yamaha GC-10

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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by nmshu1 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:32 am

Beowulf wrote:Back to the original topic: The GC82S/C are custom made. Search for "Yamaha GC series: Visiting Custom Shop" for a Youtube video.
I feel Yamaha has very good quality control. If it is suitable for normal tension strings like D'Addario EJ45, it is perfect. I will consider to buy.
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Jae Lee
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Jae Lee » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:48 am

Beowulf wrote:Back to the original topic: The GC82S/C are custom made. Search for "Yamaha GC series: Visiting Custom Shop" for a Youtube video.
Although it's true that GC guitars from 82 to 32 are made in the custom shop in Japan, in a strict sense, GC82 is not custom made. In the original Japanese link I provided above says that only GC70/71/60 are 受注生産品, which means "custom made" / "make-to-order product." GC82 doesn't have the mark. There are many GC82 guitars available at various stores around the world. You can buy it at anytime.
But GC70/71 are extremely rare. These are truly custom made. If you want them, you have to make a special order. These guitars were used by Baden Powell, Liona Boyd, Stepan Rak, to name a few.

GC70/71 is 1,600,000 Yen (=$13,792 USD)
GC82, is 1,150,000 Yen (=$9,912 USD)
GC60 is 1,000,000 Yen (=$8,620 USD)--only for 662mm
GC50 was discontinued in 2012.

Anyway, the fact that GC82 is the most expensive top of the line doesn't change because GC70/71 are made only by a special order. GC82 should be a great guitar although I haven't played it.

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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Beowulf » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:59 am

Hmm...we're splitting hairs now. The GC82S/C are hand crafted instruments and not "factory made". I had to place a special order for one as there were none in Canada. The GC70/70C/71/60 are made with Brazilian Rosewood sides and back and these cannot be exported from Japan under CITES restrictions.
1971 Yamaha GC-10

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Jae Lee
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Jae Lee » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:11 am

Beowulf wrote:Hmm...we're splitting hairs now. The GC82S/C are hand crafted instruments and not "factory made". I had to place a special order for one as there were none in Canada. The
GC70/70C/71/60 are made with Brazilian Rosewood sides and back and these cannot be exported from Japan under CITES restrictions.
You misunderstood me. Please read my post again.
I didn't say GC82 is factory made. It's impossible that a $9,999 guitar is to be called factory made.
There shouldn't be any quality difference between GC82 and GC 70/71/60. They are all truly handcrafted guitars made by the same Yamaha master luthier(s).

Musiciansfriend and Guiar Center here in the US have new GC82 in stock (look at their online stores).

We approached the word "custom" differently. I defined it in a very strict sense. The Japanese link says that GC70/71/60 are "受注生産品" because Yamaha doesn't produce them anymore. They are just commissioned guitars that are started to be built only when requested by a customer (I don't know if they require a deposit as luthiers here generally do).

Therefore, I said above, GC82 is the most expensive flagship model we can have, that is, currently the best Yamaha classical guitar available on the market. GC70/71/60 don't appear on the offical USA Yamaha guitar catalog ("CITES restrictions" may be the reason). Then, we'd better forget the existence of GC70/71/60. Who owns them among Delcampers? Nobody. Who owns them in the US? I don't know. Probably only a few.

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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Beowulf » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:24 pm

Jae Lee wrote:
Beowulf wrote:Hmm...we're splitting hairs now. The GC82S/C are hand crafted instruments and not "factory made". I had to place a special order for one as there were none in Canada. The
GC70/70C/71/60 are made with Brazilian Rosewood sides and back and these cannot be exported from Japan under CITES restrictions.
You misunderstood me. Please read my post again.
I didn't say GC82 is factory made. It's impossible that a $9,999 guitar is to be called factory made.
There shouldn't be any quality difference between GC82 and GC 70/71/60. They are all truly handcrafted guitars made by the same Yamaha master luthier(s).

Musiciansfriend and Guiar Center here in the US have new GC82 in stock (look at their online stores).

We approached the word "custom" differently. I defined it in a very strict sense. The Japanese link says that GC70/71/60 are "受注生産品" because Yamaha doesn't produce them anymore. They are just commissioned guitars that are started to be built only when requested by a customer (I don't know if they require a deposit as luthiers here generally do).

Therefore, I said above, GC82 is the most expensive flagship model we can have, that is, currently the best Yamaha classical guitar available on the market. GC70/71/60 don't appear on the offical USA Yamaha guitar catalog ("CITES restrictions" may be the reason). Then, we'd better forget the existence of GC70/71/60. Who owns them among Delcampers? Nobody. Who owns them in the US? I don't know. Probably only a few.
Quite so...we define "custom" differently...I see it as applying to hand made and special order (at least in Canada). No worries.

Actually, in the Yamaha catalogue the GC82S/C are listed as "Grand Concert Custom". The GC82S/C can be further customized with the optional addition of 2mm fret position side markers. The GC70/70C/71/60 can be ordered with custom scales (640mm or 660mm; except the GC60 is only available in 662mm) and neck widths (50~54mm & 60~64mm). This information is available in the PDF attachments following from the page you linked above (simply select GC82S and you will also see "※受注生産品" or "* Make to order products" on the listing . The specifications attachment also lists the GC82S/C as custom.

And yes, I had to pay a deposit to order the building of my instrument...which will take roughly 7 months.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1971 Yamaha GC-10

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Jae Lee
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Jae Lee » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:43 pm

I think our misunderstanding began with my comments that GC82 is available at various stores around the world, so you can buy it at anytime. So, it's not custom-made in a strict sense.
But by this, I didn't mean that GC82 is interior to GC70/71/60.
But you didn't feel comfortable about my comments.
But again, I didn't say GC82 is interior to GC70/71/60. Rather, I said all of them are made in the Yamaha custom shop by the master luthiers. So there is no quality difference. What I mentioned is only the nature of "availability" and "custom-made in a strict sense".
It's now good to see the original PDF catalog and you made a special order for it with a deposit and 7 month waiting (it's not available in Canada).
As a Yamaha GC family membet, I'm sure it will be a great guitar.

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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by edcat7 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:19 pm

Beowulf wrote:Hmm...we're splitting hairs now. The GC82S/C are hand crafted instruments and not "factory made". I had to place a special order for one as there were none in Canada. The GC70/70C/71/60 are made with Brazilian Rosewood sides and back and these cannot be exported from Japan under CITES restrictions.

Whatever the case I think you got an excellent guitar (for the price). It costs a lot more in the UK.
Remember Anthony Weller, please help. Contact myself or Aaron Green for details.

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Beowulf
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Beowulf » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:18 pm

Jae Lee wrote:I think our misunderstanding began with my comments that GC82 is available at various stores around the world, so you can buy it at anytime. So, it's not custom-made in a strict sense.
But by this, I didn't mean that GC82 is interior to GC70/71/60.
But you didn't feel comfortable about my comments.
But again, I didn't say GC82 is interior to GC70/71/60. Rather, I said all of them are made in the Yamaha custom shop by the master luthiers. So there is no quality difference. What I mentioned is only the nature of "availability" and "custom-made in a strict sense".
It's now good to see the original PDF catalog and you made a special order for it with a deposit and 7 month waiting (it's not available in Canada).
As a Yamaha GC family membet, I'm sure it will be a great guitar.
Again, no worries: I was simply questioning the accuracy of the supporting evidence. The OP was asking if the guitar was factory/production made and our debate was a spinoff of that question. The GC82 does have the custom made mark and its availability relative to the earlier series has to do with BR. I do know that it is of similar quality. Yamaha has evolved the design with changes to the soundboard, bracing, bridge plate, joining rigidity of the back sides and top (in order to improve sustain & projection and tweak the tonal characteristics) and reducing the thickness of the French polish of shellac to the back and back of the neck (in order to improve the communication of the guitar with the player).

In any case, perhaps some further information will be interesting:

GC82S (derived from the GC-71) - signed by the designer Akio Naniki who also worked (I believe) with Toshio Kato (designer of the GC-71).

Yamaha Luthiers:

Naohiro Kawashima (Build)

Eikichi Yamauchi (Finish)

Teruo Nakamura (Setup)

By the way, my 1971 GC-10 was also made by Hideyuki Ezaki...I think. The signature could possibly be that of Toshio Kato, however images posted of signatures are not always accurately translated on the internet. You have an Ezaki Yamaha GC-50C...perhaps we could compare the signatures?
1971 Yamaha GC-10

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Beowulf
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C: Edit update

Post by Beowulf » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:53 pm

Edit update: It appears from the document "Yamaha Guitars Essential Knowledge", that Akio Naniki was also the designer of the GC-71 or at least worked on the design. He was also the one who delivered a GC-71 to Baden Powell.
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Re: Yamaha GC82 S/C

Post by Jae Lee » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:29 pm

It's good that you bring up Akio Naniki who is in charge of today's Yamaha GC production. His interview is found here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JGdXtebuBIo

Due to his language barrier, he has trouble clearly expressing his ideas and often misunderstands the questions. But at least, we can see some important info on Yamaha GC.

According to him,
Brazilian b & s is only for Japan. GC71 and 82 are the same guitar inspired by Santos Hernandez and Hauser, except for the b & s materials (Brazilian vs Madagascar): (more exactly, it should be GC82s because GC71 is a spruce guitar).
He's been making guitars for 20 years. He learned guitar making from Kato.
Yamaha GC guitars are (still) based on the traditional Spanish style. His ideals are Santos Hernandez and Hauser guitars. It's not likely that Naniki will take any innovative step (new trend) in guitar making as Kenny Hill does (double top, lattice bracing etc..)
He has a great deal of confidence about the quality of Yamaha sound, but fails to describe it clearly in datail due to his English problem. At a point, he says the basses should be "heavy" (?). I think "rich" should be a better term.
He strongly believes that shellac finish makes a huge difference.
It seems that Yamaha doesn't use Ezo spruce anymore. Naniki says he uses German spruce or cedar.
He doesn't know where Yamaha's rosewood is from. (?).

There are more... I hope Yamaha GC fans will watch the interview.

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