Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Laudiesdad69
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Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:18 am

I just measured my hand. I can stretch index finger to pinky 7inches. My thumb to pinky is 9 inches. I play 650mm guitars with no problem, but I am wondering about a 640mm guitar.

Any of you with same size hands have a preference for a scale other than 650?

I'd be interested if anybody can recommend a 640mm factory guitar? I don't want to spend a lot. Is there such a guitar? Does anybody make a 640mm factory guitar?

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guitarseller345645
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by guitarseller345645 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:17 am

Kenny Hill has many 640mm guitars.
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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:15 am

Ramirez 130 Años in 640mm size
viewtopic.php?t=97600
and
German Vazquez Rubio, USA also offers model Estudio 640mm
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.
Kenny Hill, model Madrid, 2002, No. 2019, Cedar/IRW. Scale 650 mm.

Joe de V
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by Joe de V » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:35 pm

The Esteve/R.Fernandez Model 40 with a 48mm nut and a 640mm scale may be a good choice. check with... http://www.fernandezmusic.com and see if they are still available. I bought mine before Mr.Fernandez moved from California up North to Washington an at that time his stock was limited.A solid Top instrument with a beautiful sound.Worth checking with them. Good Luck

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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by doug » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:42 pm

I bought a used Kenny Hill Estudio 640 just to try the shorter scale, and I liked it so much I bought another one. I keep one of them at my office and the other is my "travel" guitar......if I play in church. I gave $400 for the used one, and about $800 for the new one.
2017 Jason Wolverton spruce/maple, 640, "Luz Blanca"
2016 Kenny Hill New World Estudio 640, C
2015 GV Rubio Estudio 640 SP/PE

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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by Ramon Amira » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:32 pm

Marlon Navarro makes a 640. It's a luthier guitar, and it sells for the price of a barely mid-level factory guitar.

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hesson11
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by hesson11 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:01 pm

You might search for Savage Classical Guitars. One of the best CG sites around. He usually stocks several models if you click on the "Small Scale Guitars" link on the home page. Almost all have recording samples. Lots of good advice regarding selection of scale length. (I have no relation to Savage other than admiring the amount of work and useful info he puts into his website.)
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by doug » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:12 pm

hesson11 wrote:You might search for Savage Classical Guitars. One of the best CG sites around. He usually stocks several models if you click on the "Small Scale Guitars" link on the home page. Almost all have recording samples. Lots of good advice regarding selection of scale length. (I have no relation to Savage other than admiring the amount of work and useful info he puts into his website.)
-Bob
+1
2017 Jason Wolverton spruce/maple, 640, "Luz Blanca"
2016 Kenny Hill New World Estudio 640, C
2015 GV Rubio Estudio 640 SP/PE

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souldier
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by souldier » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:23 pm

Laudiesdad69 wrote:I just measured my hand. I can stretch index finger to pinky 7inches. My thumb to pinky is 9 inches. I play 650mm guitars with no problem, but I am wondering about a 640mm guitar.
Your hands are significantly bigger than mine and I play a 650. I used to play 640 guitars but I've since switched back to 650 for several reasons. I feel that 640 really isn't necessary for you at all and can actually prove to be less playable especially when playing in the upper registers.
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Laudiesdad69
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:02 am

souldier wrote:
Laudiesdad69 wrote:I just measured my hand. I can stretch index finger to pinky 7inches. My thumb to pinky is 9 inches. I play 650mm guitars with no problem, but I am wondering about a 640mm guitar.
Your hands are significantly bigger than mine and I play a 650. I used to play 640 guitars but I've since switched back to 650 for several reasons. I feel that 640 really isn't necessary for you at all and can actually prove to be less playable especially when playing in the upper registers.
Maybe you are right. I didn't think about the higher frets. Makes sense that there would be less room between them. You know what is funny though, is I have experienced a little of this on my Brian May replica electric. It's a 24 inch scale with 24 frets. I do have a little difficulty playing the last 2 frets on it. It's a luthier built guitar. I have been toying with making one myself, but if I did I would add an extra 1/4 inch to the scale. This guitar can be built completely with hand tools.

I just got the sheet music to Walton's five bagatelles. Perhaps I should wait and see if there are any challenges in playing this that may be exaggerated on a shorter guitar. And besides, if I got a shorter scale guitar, it would likely wind up residing with my daughter. Hence, this is why I'm looking for a factory made guitar. :merci:

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:05 am

hesson11 wrote:You might search for Savage Classical Guitars. One of the best CG sites around. He usually stocks several models if you click on the "Small Scale Guitars" link on the home page. Almost all have recording samples. Lots of good advice regarding selection of scale length. (I have no relation to Savage other than admiring the amount of work and useful info he puts into his website.)
-Bob
Thanks, I will do that. :merci:

Pat Dodson
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by Pat Dodson » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:45 am

I have 4 classical guitars that are 650 and one that is 640. The difference in distance between fret 1 and fret 4, across the 6 strings e to E, on 640 and 650 guitars is of the order of 1.5mm. From fret 12 to fret 19 the difference in spacing between each fret, 640 to 650 is around 0.2 to 0.3mm. (m takes up 1.5mm. And 0.2mm is around the width of this print!)

Not large differences and whether these differences matter to an individual player is really a very individual thing. As has been said many times in other threads, playability is about much more than scale length. Nut width, string spacing, neck depth and profile, radius on fretboard, nut slots, action, string tension etc, etc. These factors can together count for as as big or a bigger contribution to playability.

Given the above, the history of the variety of the classical guitar's scale length and the contentedness of many Les Paul and PRS players with their less than 640 scales (with much fluent playing at the dusty end,) I think it foolish to simplify this issue or to be dogmatic or macho about it.

My 640 was commissioned and has a slightly narrower nut and slim neck and radiussed board. I find its playability superior to all my 650s though I am happy with all of those too. And I recognise that there are almost certainly 650s whose playability is as good or better than my 640 though I shan't now be going looking for them

If 640 interests you then perhaps suspend all theoretical judgement and take only very cautious note of the opinions of others on this very personal matter. Instead perhaps go try a variety of 640s alongside some similarly priced 650s or your own current guitars and decide only from your own empirical experience.
Last edited by Pat Dodson on Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

simonm
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by simonm » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:11 am

Interesting post Pat. I made a walnut 640 for a local guy here a couple of years back who is not exactly tall. Some weeks after he got it, he said his playing had changed completely, he was practicing much more and was quite delighted with the shorter scale. Some months ago it needed a repair so I lent him a recently completely maple 650. When I dropped back the 640 he (and his wife) had fallen in love with the sound of the 650. I told him to keep both for a while as it seemed to me to be rash to go back to a 650 when apparently a 640 had made such a difference. After 3 months he can't decide which he wants to keep. The moral behind the story is similar to yours: guitars are individual and playability is a combination of factors.

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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by Pat Dodson » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:35 am

simonm wrote:Interesting post Pat. I made a walnut 640 for a local guy here a couple of years back who is not exactly tall. Some weeks after he got it, he said his playing had changed completely, he was practicing much more and was quite delighted with the shorter scale. Some months ago it needed a repair so I lent him a recently completely maple 650. When I dropped back the 640 he (and his wife) had fallen in love with the sound of the 650. I told him to keep both for a while as it seemed to me to be rash to go back to a 650 when apparently a 640 had made such a difference. After 3 months he can't decide which he wants to keep. The moral behind the story is similar to yours: guitars are individual and playability is a combination of factors.
Fascinating Simon. Scale length difference between 640 and 650 itself probably has little or no effect on sound does it especially as luthiers often keep the box dimensions the same? That's down to many other factors?

The conservative nature of classical guitarists, used to the 650 standard and the legendary status of longer scale Ramirez 660/664 1a guitars, seem to me to drive much prejudice. That being so it might of course result in 640s being harder to sell on. :?

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bear
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Re: Anybody know of a good 640mm factory guitar?

Post by bear » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:20 pm

Laudiesdad69 wrote:I just measured my hand. I can stretch index finger to pinky 7inches. My thumb to pinky is 9 inches. I play 650mm guitars with no problem, but I am wondering about a 640mm guitar.

Any of you with same size hands have a preference for a scale other than 650?

I'd be interested if anybody can recommend a 640mm factory guitar? I don't want to spend a lot. Is there such a guitar? Does anybody make a 640mm factory guitar?
I would second the Kenny Hill reference, also Marlon Navarro. Navarro, is not factory but you see them around on occasion. I found the 640 easier to play than the 650, but I have problems with my left hand and the difference was hitting the F# . The 640, I can hit it without thinking about it, the 650 requires some focus.
Most of the 640's that I looked at had a 50mm nut. A 52mm would have been better for my wide fingers and limited flexibility. I had to give up steel string because the nut was too narrow. If you can play a steel string then the 50mm nut may not be an issue for you.
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Giustina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce

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