2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Carlos
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by Carlos » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:06 am

you´re welcome! And if you prefer buying new it´s also understandable, second-hand market brings more interesting options, but it´s also more cumbersome, and takes time. And it´s also nice to have a new guitar.

On the ABETO versus CEDAR, you really need to find it for yourself. To find out, you should go to a store, compare the same type of guitar with different woods, and try to capture the difference and ask yourselves which one you like better.

Improvement potentials is not in my view really a criteria, eg CEDAR is supposed to be straight at the top of its potential (although some player say if you play the guitar often it has a positive impact for cedar as well), while ABETO might take time to reach full potential, but this is merely about the timing of when the guitar is at full, an will not tell you which one you prefer. Of course, if the plan is to have a guitar and sell it in 6 months, then you know that you will have a guitar at full potential during six month, while this would not be the case for abeto. Still you might prefer abeto.

Note that if you buy abeto second hand then the guitar has developped already. However, mind the years of construction, as even if the guitar was built by a great luthier, if you get one of his first the guitar is likely not to be comparable with those he/she has built after years of experience. The name is not all, the date also matters.

Lastly, regarding difference between cedar and abeto, typically cedar is warmer and louder, but with less clear separation of the voices and less brightness. This means that your choice can also be commanded by your repertoire: if you want to play baroque musique with contrepoint, then perhaps having voice separation is better.

Furthermore, getting a nice sound is also harder, on average, for abeto than for cedar, because it requires more capacity to control the sound (cannot explain you why, but this is connected to the wood structure). But once you can control, the experience is often reported as more rewarding. To give an example, Dyens has spent many years only swearing with abeto, but in his late life was playing on cedar because he just didn´t want to have to make so many efforts to control the sound. He wanted to just play and enjoy.

Also, cheap cedar top sound better than cheap abeto top. So if you go abeto you should go for quality - but with your budget you are fine.

So, in a nutshell, for a beginner cedar top is likely more commandable than abeto, however it´s all about taste and for this one you should definitely spend some time trying the sound and see which one you like more.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:08 am

So ABETO is the same as spruce? Not heard it called that before.
D'Ammassa Spruce/Spruce Double Top

Gary Macleod
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by Gary Macleod » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:19 am

Adrian Allan wrote:So ABETO is the same as spruce? Not heard it called that before.
Abeto is the Spanish for spruce, did you get your Italian guitar yet?

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Adrian Allan
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:25 am

Claudia started making it two weeks ago and I have paid a deposit. I have asked for a spruce double top with nomex, to contrast with the Adalid/ Hopf cedar. She gets great reviews, so I am confident it will be good. Will let you know as soon as I get my hands on it with a review.

For those who may wonder what I'm talking about, it is a commission from a young Italian luthier for 1800E
D'Ammassa Spruce/Spruce Double Top

Carlos
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by Carlos » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:05 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:Claudia started making it two weeks ago and I have paid a deposit. I have asked for a spruce double top with nomex, to contrast with the Adalid/ Hopf cedar. She gets great reviews, so I am confident it will be good. Will let you know as soon as I get my hands on it with a review.

For those who may wonder what I'm talking about, it is a commission from a young Italian luthier for 1800E
So she can sell you a hand-made double-top for 1800 E? Not bad... would be interested to get your review once you receive the guitar.

Would you know how many guitars she has built already? or at least when she started?

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Adrian Allan
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:05 pm

Carlos wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:Claudia started making it two weeks ago and I have paid a deposit. I have asked for a spruce double top with nomex, to contrast with the Adalid/ Hopf cedar. She gets great reviews, so I am confident it will be good. Will let you know as soon as I get my hands on it with a review.

For those who may wonder what I'm talking about, it is a commission from a young Italian luthier for 1800E
So she can sell you a hand-made double-top for 1800 E? Not bad... would be interested to get your review once you receive the guitar.

Would you know how many guitars she has built already? or at least when she started?
About ten, I think. I obviously can't guarantee the quality until I play one myself, but life can be a gamble. You can get a great bargain from a young maker. I had Colin Morison's guitar no.11 from 1997 and that was great and only £1000. If you want more info on the guitar maker in Italy, send me a PM.
D'Ammassa Spruce/Spruce Double Top

Carlos
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by Carlos » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:41 pm

Adrian Allan wrote: If you want more info on the guitar maker in Italy, send me a PM.
Thanks Adrian!

Looking forward to reading your review when you receive it.

AntonioMartinsPereira
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by AntonioMartinsPereira » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:12 pm

Carlos wrote:you´re welcome! And if you prefer buying new it´s also understandable, second-hand market brings more interesting options, but it´s also more cumbersome, and takes time. And it´s also nice to have a new guitar.

On the ABETO versus CEDAR, you really need to find it for yourself. To find out, you ......
Thanks Carlos.

One more time, your comments are helpful.

AntonioMartinsPereira
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by AntonioMartinsPereira » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:18 pm

Carlos wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote: If you want more info on the guitar maker in Italy, send me a PM.
Looking forward to reading your review when you receive it.
Adrian, as Carlos i Looking forward to reading your review when you receive it.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sun May 28, 2017 6:30 am

I received the guitar discussed a few posts above last week, and a review and a rough video of me playing it is on the public space part of the main forum.
D'Ammassa Spruce/Spruce Double Top

nmshu1
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by nmshu1 » Sun May 28, 2017 6:57 am

I have a Juan Hernandez Torres 640 with nut width 50. It's sound very clear, clean, highly responsive, well balanced, comfortable. The guitar can be played very quickly...
Otto Vowinkel, Cedar/BRW 650; Juan Hernandez Torres, Spruce/IRW 640;
German V. Rubio, Spruce/MP 635; Kenny Hill Performance, Double Top(Spruce/Cedar)/MP 630;
German V. Rubio, Spruce/PE 635; Córdoba C9A&B, Cedar/MH 650; Sweet Tone, Spruce/RW 640

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petermc61
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by petermc61 » Sun May 28, 2017 7:41 am

If Abeto is spruce, then I don't think you can approach it by asking which is better. They are different. When younger cedar is often a bit richer. I find with age there is a wider range of tonal colours with spruce. They both have their admirers but I tend to be a spruce sort of guy.

madrilla
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by madrilla » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:00 am

I saw a used (by a concert player) Burguet Unico 2015 cedar for sale at 2000€, not sure if it's still available. It has marks from removing the golpeador and ergoplay but looks in very good condition apart from that.

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zavaletas
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Re: 2500€ for buying a guitar: Amalio Burguet, Juan Hernandez, Esteves, or...?

Post by zavaletas » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:44 am

I would recommend from your list Esteve (which includes Juan Hernandez and Manuel Adalid) both of whom are partners in the firm, but also make lines of guitars under their own names. I have bought guitar from both of them, and the quality of work is exceptional. There are some others you might consider in Valencia, such as the Hermanos Sanchis Lopez-- a workshop more along the lines of the Ramirez III shop, building with traditional methods. The firm has been building guitars since 1915. That said, 2500 Euros will buy you a lot of guitar-- including guitars made by individual luthiers, particularly in Granada.

James
Zavaleta's La Casa de Guitarras
James, Zavaleta's La Casa de Guitarras

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