Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Podobin
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Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Post by Podobin » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:53 pm

Would anyone on the forum know if the Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model is actually made in his shop or whether (as many builders do) jobs this out to one of the higher production manufacturers and then places his label on the instrument. I am looking to upgrade from a Picado 54 Cedar, and would like to find something in the $2700 USD or $3000 EUR price range.
Thanks much
Joe
"Podobin" :chitarrista:

Podobin
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Re: Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Post by Podobin » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:49 am

Anyone with info on this model???

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David_Norton
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Re: Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Post by David_Norton » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:22 pm

Apparently not.

That being said, the importance is in whether YOU like the feel/sound of the instrument, and not letting yourself get bogged down dwelling on "whose fingerprints were on the wood?" during the build process. People don't insist on driving cars hand-built by Henry Ford's or Louis Chevrolet's direct descendants, or only flying in aircraft made by William Boeing's great-grandkids.

It's a sure bet that Teodoro Perez himself doesn't make the Madrid line himself. He came up with the design specs for it. Therefore, whether the actual builder is working from these specs in the Perez shop, or across the street, or in another town, is all pretty irrelevant.
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

Podobin
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Re: Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Post by Podobin » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:23 am

David
While I understand your point, it seems that the guitar market in general has shifted in the past 30 years to allow for name brands to subcontract models to various sources. In the instrument business there is more intimacy and personality inherent in the building of a guitar. That said, it seems that major names will trade upon their reputation as a brand to the extent of merely placing a label on a guitar built say in Valencia or now China. I do not have problem with name brands such as Kenny Hill who are transparent about the fact that their lower models are built in a plant in China. However luthiers who trade based upon the reputation of their name have an ethical duty to advise in their literature/website etc that particular instruments are built in contracted workshops.

spruceman33
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Re: Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Post by spruceman33 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:25 pm

I used to have one of the first Madrids and at that time (2013), they were still built in Teodoro's shop by a colleague of his son. Since then, I was told, they have subcontracted them out unfortunately.
2008 Kenny Hill Hauser '37 SP/IN
1992 Richard Howell CD/IN

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David_Norton
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Re: Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Post by David_Norton » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:21 pm

Podobin wrote: However luthiers who trade based upon the reputation of their name have an ethical duty to advise in their literature/website etc that particular instruments are built in contracted workshops.
Really? Please, cite your source(s) for this Ethical Duty. The only ethical admonishment that I know of goes rather the other way: "Caveat emptor".
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

Semitone
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Re: Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Post by Semitone » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:19 pm

David_Norton wrote:
Podobin wrote: Please, cite your source(s) for this Ethical Duty. The only ethical admonishment that I know of goes rather the other way: "Caveat emptor".
I figure Kant's Categorical Imperative works as a "source". For those with a more spiritual nature maybe Matthew 7:12.

Technically I would claim " Caveat Emptor" is closer to a seller's FU than a source of ethics.

In any event it is pretty difficult to hold anybody to a moral standard so we get stuck with politicians and laws....ouch! :contrat:
Last edited by Semitone on Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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petermc61
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Re: Teodoro Perez "Madrid" model question

Post by petermc61 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:39 pm

David_Norton wrote:
Podobin wrote: However luthiers who trade based upon the reputation of their name have an ethical duty to advise in their literature/website etc that particular instruments are built in contracted workshops.
Really? Please, cite your source(s) for this Ethical Duty. The only ethical admonishment that I know of goes rather the other way: "Caveat emptor".
David

Of course there is no ethical 'duty'. If the guitar only has a label and a model number/name then I am happy for lack of transparency. As soon as the luthier signs a label, given the historical practice for over a century of hand signing guitars built by that hand, I think the consumer expects it to be a hand made luthier guitar. In my view, hand signing factory guitars by luthiers that also make instruments themselves would cross an ethical boundary if that guitar/model was not made by the luthier.

Regards
Peter

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