Turkowiak Guitars

kavor
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Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by kavor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:57 am

Jacek A. Rochacki wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:29 am
So sorry, to see and hear your presentation one should have a Google account.

Simple sentence: ..."sound like a guitar" may mean different things to different people. Let us compare sounds of a good Spanish guitar with a lattice braced "Smallman type" instrument. For some people the first one sounds like a guitar, the second - well, produces sounds that are not typical for a guitar in their understanding even the sounds are most beautiful. This matter was a subject of many discussions. And different constructions with their characteristic sounds palette were described as these which sound like a guitar :)
Well, part of me wants to utilize scientific reasoning and say: can people really tell in a blind test which guitar has been made using lattice technique or which is Turkowiak and which is standard Spanish? But seems like this is not science and classical community is very conservative. Its almost like religion. If an authority (like priest) in this field says this is so and so, noone has right to say, like, prove it with a verifiable experiment. I hate to insult or even discuss other people's religion because its like personal and special and sacred. So, lets just leave it at that.

Anyway, thanks for trying to explain it!

Kavor
Last edited by kavor on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

piotr
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Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by piotr » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:51 am

If you like this guitar,that's fine.Enjoy your new guitar!

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:06 am

I think that in many cases it is possible to distinguish by ear the type of construction of tested guitar. Not in 100% of test playing but in many cases. This leads to making stereotypes, and typical sounds of some constructions are described as "tubby" etc. in comparison to other constructions; many test playing, long experience helps. Other types of construction are described as silent or not as loud as some players would like them to be. This probably prompted Jose Ramirez to construct the model 1A that may sound really loud in opposition to smaller in size Torres-like constructions - but La Leona may be really loud.

Stereotypes sometime influence judgements, and so we may find opinions that double top guitars (with nomex between both layers) are not sounding as guitars that we consider a "real" guitar. And there are plenty of other occasions/cases that may be used to criticise things.

Guitar, playing music should give good joy. And this is most important, I think, regardless the price in $$$. These are our money, after all. And if you like your new guitar - just enjoy it ! congratulation !
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.

kavor
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Location: Boston MA

Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by kavor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:36 am

piotr wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:51 am
If you like this guitar,that's fine.Enjoy your new guitar!
Thank You!

kavor
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:18 pm
Location: Boston MA

Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by kavor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:46 am

Jacek A. Rochacki wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:06 am
I think that in many cases it is possible to distinguish by ear the type of construction of tested guitar. Not in 100% of test playing but in many cases. This leads to making stereotypes, and typical sounds of some constructions are described as "tubby" etc. in comparison to other constructions; many test playing, long experience helps. Other types of construction are described as silent or not as loud as some players would like them to be. This probably prompted Jose Ramirez to construct the model 1A that may sound really loud in opposition to smaller in size Torres-like constructions - but La Leona may be really loud.

Stereotypes sometime influence judgements, and so we may find opinions that double top guitars (with nomex between both layers) are not sounding as guitars that we consider a "real" guitar. And there are plenty of other occasions/cases that may be used to criticise things.

Guitar, playing music should give good joy. And this is most important, I think, regardless the price in $$$. These are our money, after all. And if you like your new guitar - just enjoy it ! congratulation !
Regardless of feel and stereotypes, I can say that my Turkowiak guitar has great sustain, it is very easy to play, and (to my ears) bases and trebles are balanced very well. Maybe I will evolve into different type of understanding in time, but, at this point this guitar is like a dream. The neck is very special, its maple, substantial but light.

With regards to innovations of Mr. Turkowiak, I wanted to add, I approach this from purely scientific perspective. I don't have Turkowiak guitar that's been built without these innovations so its impossible for me to tell whether the 'quality of sound' derives from the innovations or from his ability to build a quality guitar. This guitar is impeccable built. The soundboard is very delicate and guitar rings in my ears.

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HNLim
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Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by HNLim » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:54 am

kavor wrote:The soundboard is very delicate and guitar rings in my ears.
I presumed it rings in your heart as well

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:58 am

Let me repeat my congratulations on your guitar. You like it and it is most important, I think.

Perhaps with time you will notice that some pieces sound better on some guitars, and sound not so well on other guitars. Then you will chose your repertoire/number of pieces that in your perception sound the best on this mr. Turkowiak guitar. It will be interesting to know your impresions on comparison this very guitar with other guitars (not factory made) of a traditional construction when the same "test" piece is played - Romance Anonymous, some etudes by Tarrega or Sor.
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.

Jack Douglas
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Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by Jack Douglas » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:52 pm

Kavor,

You haven't indicated where you are located. There may be a classical guitar society or classically trained guitar instructor near you. Someone mentioned technique, posture, holding the instrument and to prevent injury to yourself and getting the most from your new guitar it's important that you learn as much as you can to make the best use of it and your ability.
Regarding a Guitar Society; it's a great venue to meet like minded musicians, listen to a variety of guitars and improve your knowledge about the classical guitar.
Also, there's nothing like attending a classical guitar concert in an intimate setting to really appreciate what the guitar,in the hands of a dedicated and trained musician, can sound like.
Good luck.
Jack
Last edited by Jack Douglas on Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hauser III 2014!

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Beowulf
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Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by Beowulf » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:31 pm

A bit of subtle humour for various debates:

The Untenable Argument

My adversary's argument
is not alone malevolent
but ignorant to boot.
He hasn't even got the sense
to state his so-called evidence
in terms I can refute.

Piet Hein :mrgreen:

Onward and upward: Apoyando scales forever! :D
1971 Yamaha GC-10

kavor
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:18 pm
Location: Boston MA

Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by kavor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:20 pm

Beowulf wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:31 pm
A bit of subtle humour for various debates:

The Untenable Argument

My adversary's argument
is not alone malevolent
but ignorant to boot.
He hasn't even got the sense
to state his so-called evidence
in terms I can refute.

Piet Hein :mrgreen:

Onward and upward: Apoyando scales forever! :D
There are no adversaries here, relax :)

kavor
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:18 pm
Location: Boston MA

Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by kavor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:36 pm

Jack Douglas wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:52 pm
Kavor,

You haven't indicated where you are located. There my be a classical guitar society or classically trained guitar instructor near you. Someone mentioned technique, posture, holding the instrument and to prevent injury to yourself and getting the most from your new guitar it's important that you learn as much as you can to make the best use of it and your ability.
Regarding a Guitar Society; it's a great venue to meet like minded musicians, listen to a variety of guitars and improve your knowledge about the classical guitar.
Also, there's nothing like attending a classical guitar concert in an intimate setting to really appreciate what the guitar,in the hands of a dedicated and trained musician, can sound like.
Good luck.
Jack
I live in Lebanon, New Hampshire. If you are not familiar, its that place Walter White gets to hide in the middle of nowhere (if you watched braking bad)

There are some cultural happenings here in upper valley. The teacher that I found is a great musician, really interesting fella, but he is not like traditional classical.

On the weekends I am in Boston. I went to watch David Russel in a small church. Yeah, that was a great experience.

Any good teachers in Boston that you know, perhaps? (I haven't done my homework here, there is Boston classical society but...)

Kavor

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Beowulf
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Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by Beowulf » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:09 pm

kavor wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:20 pm
Beowulf wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:31 pm
A bit of subtle humour for various debates:

The Untenable Argument

My adversary's argument
is not alone malevolent
but ignorant to boot.
He hasn't even got the sense
to state his so-called evidence
in terms I can refute.

Piet Hein :mrgreen:

Onward and upward: Apoyando scales forever! :D
There are no adversaries here, relax :)
Very relaxed...my tongue was in my cheek: :wink:
1971 Yamaha GC-10

kavor
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:18 pm
Location: Boston MA

Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by kavor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Beowulf wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:09 pm
kavor wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:20 pm
Beowulf wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:31 pm
A bit of subtle humour for various debates:

The Untenable Argument

My adversary's argument
is not alone malevolent
but ignorant to boot.
He hasn't even got the sense
to state his so-called evidence
in terms I can refute.

Piet Hein :mrgreen:

Onward and upward: Apoyando scales forever! :D
There are no adversaries here, relax :)
Very relaxed...my tongue was in my cheek: :wink:
You, sir, you like double speak a lot.

Well, I realize some of those passages in my video should have been played differently :) But, lets just concentrate on the sound that the guitar is making, eh? Still not a guitar? :)

Now, my friend laughed when I said I have been told I have not even bought a guitar. Its like, this is exactly a reason I have to buy guitar like this remotely. In whole Boston there is not a single store where you can try variety of classical guitars, like there is Guitar Emporium for acoustic whatevers :) (Guitar centers are stocked with 'high end' acoustics 3k and up...) There are stores with one or two guitars that's it. Now, please don't tell me there are luthiers for that because even online you have to go through such a pain to sell a classical guitar. There is simply much much less demand for this instrument than for acoustic and electric whatevers.
Now, we have a a guy who makes classical...'whatevers' too now because they are little different, sexy you could say, guitars that could attract greater following and lot of you jump at him: Its not a guitar!!! Well, now, who cares man, the way its going, in 20 years you will not sell anything. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion but...

Now, these Turkowiak classical guitars are a bit pricey. Its true. If I could suggest something to Mr, Turkowiak it would be this:
I would make a base model that would sell for about 2 to 3k; a model without all these bells and whistles, tubes and resonators because the guitar already has plenty of innovations as it is. The woods, construction, varnish are unique IMHO. The fretboard is asymmetrical and elevated. Maybe I am totally off, but even this soundboard is very thin. He is convoluting all of these elements together because he wants to put all of them in one place, and I think impress us, right? Now, if he offered a simple model and then DEMONSTRATED why tubes and resonators make guitar better, I think he would be able to convince more 'classical' people to buy and try them. I am not suggesting he should mass produce at all, just make a little cheaper version and that would get his point across if indeed he believes that all of these extra elements make guitar better.


Kavor
Last edited by kavor on Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

kavor
Posts: 59
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Location: Boston MA

Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by kavor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:57 pm

Repeat post

Jack Douglas
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Location: Ashland, Va

Re: Turkowiak Guitars

Post by Jack Douglas » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:47 am

kavor wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:36 pm
Jack Douglas wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:52 pm
Kavor,

You haven't indicated where you are located. There my be a classical guitar society or classically trained guitar instructor near you. Someone mentioned technique, posture, holding the instrument and to prevent injury to yourself and getting the most from your new guitar it's important that you learn as much as you can to make the best use of it and your ability.
Regarding a Guitar Society; it's a great venue to meet like minded musicians, listen to a variety of guitars and improve your knowledge about the classical guitar.
Also, there's nothing like attending a classical guitar concert in an intimate setting to really appreciate what the guitar,in the hands of a dedicated and trained musician, can sound like.
Good luck.
Jack
I live in Lebanon, New Hampshire. If you are not familiar, its that place Walter White gets to hide in the middle of nowhere (if you watched braking bad)

There are some cultural happenings here in upper valley. The teacher that I found is a great musician, really interesting fella, but he is not like traditional classical.

On the weekends I am in Boston. I went to watch David Russel in a small church. Yeah, that was a great experience.

Any good teachers in Boston that you know, perhaps? (I haven't done my homework here, there is Boston classical society but...)

Kavor
In Boston there's the New England Conservatory of music and Berklee School of music. I don't know the name of a classically trained teacher. I can almost bet that someone in the classical guitar society in Boston could recommend a good teacher.
You mentioned in another post that there are no guitar stores in Boston. However, in your area there are two well known luthiers, Stephen Connor and Aaron Green. Both of these luthiers make instruments that are sought after and performed with by touring professionals and enthusiastic hobbyists.
When I first started learning to play I took lessons from a really good musician that was not a 'classical' guy. He understood music and was enthusiastic, and I was quite happy learning a few songs. What he didn't know about or how to teach was the technique of playing a classical guitar. He had a well developed 'finger picking' style that worked well enough to get notes out of the guitar and he knew enough music theory ear training to jam with people. At the time that was all I wanted.
The rub came when I got my first luthier made guitar and joined a classical guitar society. In those meetings the classically trained musicians would play my guitar and it sounded like a real concert instrument. I finally quit lessons with the nice guy musician and took lessons from a graduate of one of the schools in Boston; I can't remember which one she attended. It was a profound change. I had to learn how to produce sound pressing down into the sound hole, not picking up at or across the strings, sitting properly to prevent injury to my back, filing and caring for my fingernails, holding the guitar in a balanced manner and using the hands and fingers in a relaxed manner to prevent injury. My new teacher exposed me to so much more that the playing of a few pieces. I've gone for periods of time without a teacher, but, have found that a skilled and engaged teacher is the best way to get the most out of whatever guitar I've owned.
I think it's great that you have a new guitar and it's one you like a lot. I also think it would be worth it to learn how to properly play if so you can then experience for yourself how much horsepower she's really got.
By chance is your teacher, Stuart Johnson, at Upper Valley Music Center. He's a North Carolina fellow and studied with David Stevenson at UNC Asheville. The UNC school is a two year program. He's closer that driving to Boston. You might also look up David William Ross, a Peabody Graduate. He is who I would be seeking to teach me because Peabody is one of the very best conservatories.
That's all I've got. Good luck.
Hauser III 2014!

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