Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

zw359
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by zw359 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:18 pm

My picado 62 spruce 630cm arrived. With my very limited one year experience on guitar, I would say it's better than the 4ne spruce I tried:)
Treble is clear with nice overtone. I just feel bass is a bit tight and doesn't go along very well with the treble overtone. Very good workmanship, tuning machine is also nice.

Mr.Rain
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by Mr.Rain » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:04 pm

zw359 wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:18 pm
My picado 62 spruce 630cm arrived. With my very limited one year experience on guitar, I would say it's better than the 4ne spruce I tried:)
Treble is clear with nice overtone. I just feel bass is a bit tight and doesn't go along very well with the treble overtone. Very good workmanship, tuning machine is also nice.
The tightness will go away little by little,still the shorter scale may make the bass punchier than 650. If you go for a rounder sounding string, it may be compensated, I used EJ46c(not bad, but trebles are weak) and Ej44c (way better balance) in my Concierto 630mm, and will try some Augustine Regal and Hannabach HT as I like a big bass...

zw359
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Location: Knox ViC Australia

Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by zw359 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:15 am

Mr.Rain wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:04 pm
zw359 wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:18 pm
My picado 62 spruce 630cm arrived. With my very limited one year experience on guitar, I would say it's better than the 4ne spruce I tried:)
Treble is clear with nice overtone. I just feel bass is a bit tight and doesn't go along very well with the treble overtone. Very good workmanship, tuning machine is also nice.
The tightness will go away little by little,still the shorter scale may make the bass punchier than 650. If you go for a rounder sounding string, it may be compensated, I used EJ46c(not bad, but trebles are weak) and Ej44c (way better balance) in my Concierto 630mm, and will try some Augustine Regal and Hannabach HT as I like a big bass...
Hi Mr. Rain, thanks a lot for your advice. I need to refine my thumb skill first as my tutor already pointed out the unbalance between my strong thumb and weaker i,m, a fingers. Just imagine the 4 little strings sing well together till the 5th, or the 6th, one suddenly jumps in :D

Mr.Rain
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by Mr.Rain » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:05 pm

zw359 wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:15 am
Mr.Rain wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:04 pm
zw359 wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:18 pm
My picado 62 spruce 630cm arrived. With my very limited one year experience on guitar, I would say it's better than the 4ne spruce I tried:)
Treble is clear with nice overtone. I just feel bass is a bit tight and doesn't go along very well with the treble overtone. Very good workmanship, tuning machine is also nice.
The tightness will go away little by little,still the shorter scale may make the bass punchier than 650. If you go for a rounder sounding string, it may be compensated, I used EJ46c(not bad, but trebles are weak) and Ej44c (way better balance) in my Concierto 630mm, and will try some Augustine Regal and Hannabach HT as I like a big bass...
Hi Mr. Rain, thanks a lot for your advice. I need to refine my thumb skill first as my tutor already pointed out the unbalance between my strong thumb and weaker i,m, a fingers. Just imagine the 4 little strings sing well together till the 5th, or the 6th, one suddenly jumps in :D
I guess you can forget about the Hannabach, they sounded too thin on my concierto (630mm spruce), the Regal are ok (but not warm enough for my guitar)

Give a go to the Aranjuez 400, after trying a lot of different strings on the trebles, they are the best sounding (thick,warm and with full trebles).
The D'addarios on extra high tension sound also good but they are not as loud/warm as the Aranjuez... :mrgreen:

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tmblweed1
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by tmblweed1 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:50 am

This is a reply from Angel after I asked him the difference between the 60 and 62...
Hello Mr. Tommy
Model 60 and 62 are the same model. Except in small aesthetic things, both outside and inside,
and in the box of resonance we use in the model 62 Palo Santo of Madagascar.
regards, Angel (received 9-12-17)
As soon as you see something, you already start to intellectualize it. As soon as you intellectualize something, it is no longer what you saw.
Shunryu Suzuki-roshi 1905 1971

Mr.Rain
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by Mr.Rain » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:31 am

tmblweed1 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:50 am
This is a reply from Angel after I asked him the difference between the 60 and 62...
Hello Mr. Tommy
Model 60 and 62 are the same model. Except in small aesthetic things, both outside and inside,
and in the box of resonance we use in the model 62 Palo Santo of Madagascar.
regards, Angel (received 9-12-17)
I think their "Best seller" is the 60, this model used to be categorized as concierto level , but now it is their higher Estudio.
No doubt, It is the best "bang for the buck".

I guess the difference is that the concierto models are made by the head luthier, while the others are made by one of the other luthiers (not a big deal as the quality of their studios is still really good) ...

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am

- as far as I know the difference is in wood used; IRW is perhaps not as expensive as other woods used for higher models. And known to me models 60 were built by the head luthiers - Angel Genis or Carlos Pratt, some older model 60 guitars are signed inside by the builder. My model 60 has no signature inside, just at the Picado label signature of Master Angel who according to what I know has built my '60 for me.
Picado2008.jpg
My Picado label.jpg
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Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:11 pm

Thuy Tran wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:21 pm
Hello Jacek , Mr Rain and Doralikesmath ,
Tks to your explanations and comments I hv made up my mind . I'll go this time for an AP mod62 spruce with doblo tapas and neck reinforced with carbon fiber .The reason of my choice is because I already had two cedar top and now want to try a spruce
Actually , latest up to date info from Angel are
Mod 60 spruce/cedar top back n sides IRW
Mod 62 spruce/cedar top back n sides Madagascar RW
C1 concierto spruce/ cedar top back n sides Brazilian RW with CITES
Rosette of mod62 is for two models 62 n C1
Rosette of C1 is only for C1
Neck C1 reinforced with carbon mast , 60 & 62 not
What you guys said are totally correct . The price level refers chiefly to the material used to make the guitar and not at any extent to the quality of the sound supposed to be standardized at picado luthier level
So ,
At the production , with a good selection and ...luck one may come across a mod60 sounding better than a C1
Which is unfortunately not my case since for a trip and stay in europe from my country I most likely have to pay double the price of a 62
Did you get one Yet? If so, how does it compare to your other guitars?

Kevin L Benbow
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by Kevin L Benbow » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:15 pm

Really what you should do is go to a guitar store and just play everything until you find what you like. Every post here is nothing but subjective opinion, including mine.
Note: This mind not for rent

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tmblweed1
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by tmblweed1 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:05 pm

Mr.Rain wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:31 am
tmblweed1 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:50 am
This is a reply from Angel after I asked him the difference between the 60 and 62...
Hello Mr. Tommy
Model 60 and 62 are the same model. Except in small aesthetic things, both outside and inside,
and in the box of resonance we use in the model 62 Palo Santo of Madagascar.
regards, Angel (received 9-12-17)
I think their "Best seller" is the 60, this model used to be categorized as concierto level , but now it is their higher Estudio.
No doubt, It is the best "bang for the buck".

I guess the difference is that the concierto models are made by the head luthier, while the others are made by one of the other luthiers (not a big deal as the quality of their studios is still really good) ...
Angel is the head luthier and he signed my Model 60, unless things have changed. Mr Picado has not built guitars in several years.
As soon as you see something, you already start to intellectualize it. As soon as you intellectualize something, it is no longer what you saw.
Shunryu Suzuki-roshi 1905 1971

cpfan
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by cpfan » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:45 pm

I have recently purchased a Alhambra 9p and I used to own a 1999 Ramirez 1a which I acquired used for 4000 dollars in 2007. I owned it for7 years before I sold it and stopped playing classical guitar. I am now playing again with my new Alhambra guitar and I don't have the Ramirez to compare side by side but knowing what my Ramirez sounded like I am amazed at the sound of the new Alhambra! It is loud...and the balance of the trebles and bass strings are equal...meaning they ring out and fade at equal lengths of time. The trebles ring out with beautiful overtonrs and the harmonics are rich and powerful. I tried several strings and the best in my opinion on this cedar top 9p were the Savarez Alliance reds. Have not tried the high tension blues yet but I don't think I need to because of the sound I am getting now. I think I heard the differences between the 9p through to the 11p are just cosmetic except for one more fret and several pieces of wood to construct the heel on the 11p. I can't attest to the other guitars mentioned but I am very happy with the Alhambra. Hope this helps.

Mr.Rain
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by Mr.Rain » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:51 pm

tmblweed1 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:05 pm
Mr.Rain wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:31 am
tmblweed1 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:50 am
This is a reply from Angel after I asked him the difference between the 60 and 62...
Hello Mr. Tommy
Model 60 and 62 are the same model. Except in small aesthetic things, both outside and inside,
and in the box of resonance we use in the model 62 Palo Santo of Madagascar.
regards, Angel (received 9-12-17)
I think their "Best seller" is the 60, this model used to be categorized as concierto level , but now it is their higher Estudio.
No doubt, It is the best "bang for the buck".

I guess the difference is that the concierto models are made by the head luthier, while the others are made by one of the other luthiers (not a big deal as the quality of their studios is still really good) ...
Angel is the head luthier and he signed my Model 60, unless things have changed. Mr Picado has not built guitars in several years.
Yes, Angel is the head luthier, Don Antonio is retired, he passed the workshop to Angel and Carlos(They are both Partners in the workshop, doing Carlos a lot of business related work while Angel is the head luthier)

AFAIK Angel builds all the conciertos (as a one man process), will ask him next time we talk, about the 60s,not sure if currently he still builds them as one man process or assisted by the other luthiers (that would explain the lack of signature on the heel block), Still I think he is the one making the tops ...

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George Crocket
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by George Crocket » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:23 am

cpfan wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:45 pm
.....
Hi cpfan. Welcome to the forum and thanks for your contribution. We ask new members to introduce themselves here. :discussion:
George
2010 Stephen Eden spruce/cocobolo classical guitar
2012 Stephen Eden cedar/IRW classical guitar

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tmblweed1
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Location: Raleigh NC

Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by tmblweed1 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:34 pm

Mr.Rain wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:51 pm
tmblweed1 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:05 pm
Mr.Rain wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:31 am


I think their "Best seller" is the 60, this model used to be categorized as concierto level , but now it is their higher Estudio.
No doubt, It is the best "bang for the buck".

I guess the difference is that the concierto models are made by the head luthier, while the others are made by one of the other luthiers (not a big deal as the quality of their studios is still really good) ...
Angel is the head luthier and he signed my Model 60, unless things have changed. Mr Picado has not built guitars in several years.
Yes, Angel is the head luthier, Don Antonio is retired, he passed the workshop to Angel and Carlos(They are both Partners in the workshop, doing Carlos a lot of business related work while Angel is the head luthier)

AFAIK Angel builds all the conciertos (as a one man process), will ask him next time we talk, about the 60s,not sure if currently he still builds them as one man process or assisted by the other luthiers (that would explain the lack of signature on the heel block), Still I think he is the one making the tops ...
I am considering a 2005 Model 62, cedar and Brazilian . No signature, just Antonio Picado 62 on the label. Who do you think the builder likely was??
As soon as you see something, you already start to intellectualize it. As soon as you intellectualize something, it is no longer what you saw.
Shunryu Suzuki-roshi 1905 1971

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Antonio Picado 62 vs. Ramirez 4NE vs. Esteve 11 vs. Alhambra 11p Cedar

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:04 pm

tmblweed1 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:34 pm
...
I am considering a 2005 Model 62, cedar and Brazilian . No signature, just Antonio Picado 62 on the label. Who do you think the builder likely was??
It would be helpfull to have a chance of looking at the label. And I presume that the high end Picado guitar built in 2005 is constructed by Angel Genis.
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.

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