Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

nmshu1
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Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by nmshu1 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:39 am

Many people think guitar from individual luthier is better than factory guitar?

I like Cordoba guitars. They are excellent...
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, Juan Hernandez Torres 640,
German V. Rubio Concert 635, Kenny Hill Performance 630,
Córdoba C9 650, Sweet Tone 640

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Beowulf
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Location: London, Ontario CANADA

Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by Beowulf » Tue May 23, 2017 11:41 pm

Not all Yamaha guitars are "factory". Some are also excellent. The GC82S that is being custom built for me has a single luthier for the woodworking, one for the setup (nut & saddle) and one for the french polish finish.
1971 Yamaha GC-10

nmshu1
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by nmshu1 » Wed May 24, 2017 1:26 am

Beowulf wrote:
Tue May 23, 2017 11:41 pm
Not all Yamaha guitars are "factory". Some are also excellent. The GC82S that is being custom built for me has a single luthier for the woodworking, one for the setup (nut & saddle) and one for the french polish finish.
Yes. I think sometimes teamwork can be better. Not everyone can do everything...
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, Juan Hernandez Torres 640,
German V. Rubio Concert 635, Kenny Hill Performance 630,
Córdoba C9 650, Sweet Tone 640

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Thu May 25, 2017 7:48 am

Ramirez NE and R models are factory made. However, nobody seems to know which factories are making them. Ramirez farms all their estudio guiars out to be made by other companies. Some on this forum have named Raimundo, Alhambra, and Esteve to be the ones. But, who really knows I don't know. They say they are hand made, however they may be built by a team, not by a single luthier.
A lot of the Cordobas are made in China. I have a Córdoba C9. It's an excellent guitar, but is made in a factory. Factory made doesn't necessarily mean a bad guitar. At a certain price point, factory is all your going to be able to get.

nmshu1
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by nmshu1 » Thu May 25, 2017 5:02 pm

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 7:48 am
Ramirez NE and R models are factory made. However, nobody seems to know which factories are making them. Ramirez farms all their estudio guiars out to be made by other companies. Some on this forum have named Raimundo, Alhambra, and Esteve to be the ones. But, who really knows I don't know. They say they are hand made, however they may be built by a team, not by a single luthier.
A lot of the Cordobas are made in China. I have a Córdoba C9. It's an excellent guitar, but is made in a factory. Factory made doesn't necessarily mean a bad guitar. At a certain price point, factory is all your going to be able to get.
In modern society, I think teamwork is a good way in building guitars sometimes...
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, Juan Hernandez Torres 640,
German V. Rubio Concert 635, Kenny Hill Performance 630,
Córdoba C9 650, Sweet Tone 640

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Fri May 26, 2017 12:55 pm

One other thought on Córdoba. The master series like the Hauser replica, are built by one person. They are luthier built.

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georgemarousi
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by georgemarousi » Fri May 26, 2017 1:14 pm

Just to add that "Alhambra Luthier" models are also hand made ( they are handmade by two persons )

Owning such a model, I can confirm its definately not a factory guitar
--Classicals--
Paulino Bernabe Especial 2009
Ramirez 1A 1980
Alhambra Luthier india 2012
Juan Martinez nr 55 (the return @2014)
Yamaha cg 110 (as a kid @88)
--
student again since 2015, to my degree @..? - God bless!

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Fri May 26, 2017 6:44 pm

I'm going to try Alhambra for my next guitar. Gonna get one with nice, straight grained, IRW for back and sides,and a spruce top as I traded my Spruce Ramirez off on a near mint Rickenbacker 4003 bass (I am having to play bass again so I can make some money, unfortunately.). But the Alhambra guitars are a good value, even if I don't get the hand made one.

bluesnik
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by bluesnik » Sat May 27, 2017 1:27 am

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:55 pm
One other thought on Córdoba. The master series like the Hauser replica, are built by one person. They are luthier built.
I don't believe this is true. My understanding is the Cordoba Master Series are built by a handful of workers that were trained by Kenny Hill in a shop that was set up by him in Oxnard, CA. They are not built by an individual luthier.
2014 Ramirez 'Conservatorio' CD/IN
1975 Ramirez 1a Classical CD/BR
1976 Ramirez 1a Flamenco CD/CY

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sat May 27, 2017 1:41 am

bluesnik wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:27 am
Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:55 pm
One other thought on Córdoba. The master series like the Hauser replica, are built by one person. They are luthier built.
I don't believe this is true. My understanding is the Cordoba Master Series are built by a handful of workers that were trained by Kenny Hill in a shop that was set up by him in Oxnard, CA. They are not built by an individual luthier.
That is not what Córdoba told me on the phone. I was inquiring about their Hauser replica, and was told that they had two guys in shop who might build it, and it would be one or the other. They encouraged me to make a list of questions I might have for the builder before the build started. They are built in San Diego by one guy, according to Córdoba.

bluesnik
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by bluesnik » Sat May 27, 2017 2:02 am

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:41 am
bluesnik wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:27 am
Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:55 pm
One other thought on Córdoba. The master series like the Hauser replica, are built by one person. They are luthier built.
I don't believe this is true. My understanding is the Cordoba Master Series are built by a handful of workers that were trained by Kenny Hill in a shop that was set up by him in Oxnard, CA. They are not built by an individual luthier.
That is not what Córdoba told me on the phone. I was inquiring about their Hauser replica, and was told that they had two guys in shop who might build it, and it would be one or the other. They encouraged me to make a list of questions I might have for the builder before the build started. They are built in San Diego by one guy, according to Córdoba.
Who did you speak to? Blue Guitar in San Diego is a dealer for Cordoba but as far as I know the workshop is in Oxnard, CA. Tim Miklaucic, CEO of Cordoba guitars in their promotional video for the Master Series is quoted as saying "we have several 'luthiers' building each guitar by hand". By the way, I had to send back a Cordoba "Torres" model that I auditioned because the neck was pretty badly warped. The luthier who evaluated it seemed to think the cedar used for the neck had not been allowed to properly dry.
2014 Ramirez 'Conservatorio' CD/IN
1975 Ramirez 1a Classical CD/BR
1976 Ramirez 1a Flamenco CD/CY

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sat May 27, 2017 2:55 am

bluesnik wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 2:02 am
Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:41 am
bluesnik wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 1:27 am

I don't believe this is true. My understanding is the Cordoba Master Series are built by a handful of workers that were trained by Kenny Hill in a shop that was set up by him in Oxnard, CA. They are not built by an individual luthier.
That is not what Córdoba told me on the phone. I was inquiring about their Hauser replica, and was told that they had two guys in shop who might build it, and it would be one or the other. They encouraged me to make a list of questions I might have for the builder before the build started. They are built in San Diego by one guy, according to Córdoba.
Who did you speak to? Blue Guitar in San Diego is a dealer for Cordoba but as far as I know the workshop is in Oxnard, CA. Tim Miklaucic, CEO of Cordoba guitars in their promotional video for the Master Series is quoted as saying "we have several 'luthiers' building each guitar by hand". By the way, I had to send back a Cordoba "Torres" model that I auditioned because the neck was pretty badly warped. The luthier who evaluated it seemed to think the cedar used for the neck had not been allowed to properly dry.
That would figure that the wood wasn't properly seasoned. I've had that problem with three Cordobas. It's kind of funny that Córdoba and cracks seem to go hand in hand. Córdoba is definitely hit or miss, so a guy probably doesn't want to buy one sight unseen. I had two of their low priced guitars where the fingerboards had cracks, and a mid priced one that developed cracks in the top. Their production guitars also have frequently had fret ends poking out the sides of the neck, and it makes me wonder if they are stored in hot and dry conditions, and the fingerboard have shrunk as a result of drying out.

Thanks for the post bluesnik. Makes me wonder if the guy on the phone was just lying to me to make me want to order a guitar. The guy I talked to on the phone was Daniel something or other. He did ask me if I wanted to put down a deposit, and that it would take 3 to 4 months to complete the build.

Dave Stott
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by Dave Stott » Sat May 27, 2017 8:32 pm

I've owned several guitars from the made in China Cordoba Luthier series & I've yet to have any issues with them. So I'm either very lucky or the problems are less frequent in the Luthier series. I don't have much experience with the lower tier of guitars from Cordoba (C5, C7, etc)

Having said that, just about every Cordoba guitar that I have owned which were made in Portugal Spain had sharp fret issues or what seems like excess finish on them.
2015 Cordoba GK Pro Negra
2015 Cordoba Solista Cedar
2003 H-12 Froggy Bottom
1989 Takamine E-30 Classical

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Mon May 29, 2017 5:06 am

Dave Stott wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 8:32 pm
I've owned several guitars from the made in China Cordoba Luthier series & I've yet to have any issues with them. So I'm either very lucky or the problems are less frequent in the Luthier series. I don't have much experience with the lower tier of guitars from Cordoba (C5, C7, etc)

Having said that, just about every Cordoba guitar that I have owned which were made in Portugal Spain had sharp fret issues or what seems like excess finish on them.
I had the fret issues on my C5 and C9. The luthier filed them all by hand under the warranty. I had a C1 Protege that didn't have the fret issue. All three of those guitars had cracks in the fingerboard, two of them came that way from Musicians Friend/Guit Cntr wharehouse in Kansas City. The only Córdoba I have left is the C9. After such bad luck with them, I won't buy another Córdoba. I was on the fence about getting a Córdoba Hauser model, but now I'm definitely not going to. I've read too many posts about people's guitars developing cracks. And the fret ends sticking out is common on half of their production it seems. Are they getting stored in hot, low humidity environments in the wharehouse?

nmshu1
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Re: Ramirez, Yamaha and Córdoba are factory guitar?

Post by nmshu1 » Mon May 29, 2017 6:20 am

My Córdoba C9s are very light. Its fretboard/finger board is Ebony. Its top, back and sides seem very thin. So definitely it is very sensitive to humidity...has to be very careful to keep...I use humicase to against humidity problems....
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650, Juan Hernandez Torres 640,
German V. Rubio Concert 635, Kenny Hill Performance 630,
Córdoba C9 650, Sweet Tone 640

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