Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

xle25
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Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by xle25 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:56 am

Hello everyone.

About me:

I used to play fingerstyle, flamenco and classical music, Im not very good with high level pieces, but i can play most of the parts of flamenco and classic songs. I have been playing a alhambra c2 guitar, is good for the price but i need something better.

I want a mix of classic and flamenco guitar but i dont know the choice.

My list:

CAMPS PRIMERA NEGRA: 1400 euros, its not A version
Cordoba GK Pro negra: 1500 euros

Can you help me with my choice and try to post some others guitars for the rang of price?

Best regards, and thx all for the help,
Eric

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by rojarosguitar » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:14 am

These days the guitars are kind of specialized (that wasn't always so). So it's a bit difficult to get both in one package. Flamencas are designed for greater percussivity and less sustain than classical. A flamenca negra appears as a compromise, but even then it will be difficult to have both without at least always changing the bridge bone, because the action of a flamenco guitar is lower and that of a classical is higher (for a good reason).

I'm affraid when you opt for a compromise you will have neither a really good flamenca nor a really good classical.

That being said you can of course play anything on any guitar. That was the case in the early spanish period, when guitar was just a guitar and people used it for different purposes. (We certainy have much more knoledgeable people than me as the history of guitars goes).
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andreas777
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by andreas777 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:44 am

There are different types of flamenca negras, some of them are constructed as flamenco guitars but with a rosewood back, and some of them are constructed as classical guitars but with a golpeador. I own a Camps Primera blanca. This guitar has a weight of only 1400g and is a pure flamenco guitar. If the negra version has the same construction as the blanca version, then I would not recommend to play classical pieces on it. Furthermore I own an Hermanos Sanchis Lopez 1f extra with a Pau Ferro back. This is also a flamenca negra but its construction is more like a classical guitar, and it has a weight of 1630g. Such a guitar would be a good choice to play both styles. The price of a new guitar is more on the €2500 level but you could buy a used one. (And I don't know the other guitar you mentioned, the Cordoba gk pro.)
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by es335 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:20 am

The Cordoba GK Pro negra is more like what is called Nylon fusion guitar nowadays with cutaway, narrow neck (50 mm) and built-in pickup. Though a guitar with quite good reputation in it's field not really what one would recommend for classical music!

Heard some good things about the Camps primera negra particularly as compromise for classical and flamenco but can't comment from personal experience.

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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by Ramon Amira » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:14 pm

A Francisco Navarro Student model Negra is a signed label luthier constructed guitar, and would be just right for you, and is only a bit over $1000.

Ramon
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by rojarosguitar » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:28 am

Even though the heavier flamencas negras come closer to certain aspects of classical guitars, still, if they are really flamenco guitars, they are not going to work all too well as classical guitars, and if they are being suited for classical music, they will not have the typical properties of a flamenco guitar. After all it has always been possible to play flamenco guitar on a classical, nevertheless the specialization occurred for a good reason. I'm not well informed about the current market of manufacture made guitars, but I have a very respectable all solid flamenca blanca made in China, bought for 530 Euros. I would guess that if you combine your 1500 Euro and buy a flamenca and a classical, it could be in the end more reasonable than to try to squeeze two types of guitars into one; but of course, the choice is with you.
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by Keith » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am

since the buyer is in England the logical choice is to buy a guitar typically sold there. Kremona, Admira and Camps would well. guitars at the lower end of the price range tend to be factory guitars which tend to have a lot of variability. playing the guitar is a definite. I would throw in Yamaha into the mix as the 171 or 172 tend to have a good flamenco tone to them. many in the flamenco world rate them highly. Kremona make a consistent good flamenco that has a negra sound to them.

the problem with most lower end flamencos is that they are not all that flamenco. the guitars tend to be overbuilt and over coated. many lower end flamenco guitars are really blonde classicals.

by the way, there is a Cordoba/Loriente/GSI Carmen listed at the Bay for $1000. it could be a winner.
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by rojarosguitar » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:20 pm

Keith wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am
the problem with most lower end flamencos is that they are not all that flamenco. the guitars tend to be overbuilt and over coated. many lower end flamenco guitars are really blonde classicals.

by the way, there is a Cordoba/Loriente/GSI Carmen listed at the Bay for $1000. it could be a winner.
As much as this is true in general, my cheap chinese flamenca is coated with a very thin very hard electrostatically distributed laquer (forgot the name of this technique) that is UV hardened and renders a very pleasant looking, robust and good sounding coating. It has a very good flamenco sound that many of the cheaper spanish flamencas can only dream of.
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by Keith » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:43 pm

As a preamble, I meant Europe and not England. Secondly, I made the assumption the OP is from Europe since he/she used Euro and does not indicate where he/she lives. To address the previous post, of course there will be exceptions to any rule and the cheap Chinese flamenco mentioned above might be the cream of the crop which follows the other rule; a lot of variability with lower end guitars. To the previous poster, what is the name of the dynamo Chinese flamenca?
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:48 am

It's a Mundo Flamenco 3AF, a house brand of the Flamenco Guitar shop in Freiburg/Germany of the same name. Why dynamo? It's just a very decent guitar, especially for the money. What I was trying to pint out is that you can get decent instruments for little money, but, yes, there as little quality control, so you have really to check the individual instrument and not rely on reputation or name...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

Keith
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by Keith » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:39 pm

Interesting. Mundo Flamenco website says this about the 2F..."This is our new model which is built by Camps in Spain. This guitar is amazing value for money. It sounds great and is suitable for beginners and advanced players. It has powerful basses and airy trebles. An additional feature of this guitar is an adjustable neck. A golpeador is also fitted. This model has a slightly more brilliant tone and also separates better than the 3F model. " Sounds like the 3F is made in China and the 2F made in Spain. I was impressed with the guitar from the audio clip. The cost was half of what the OP had for his/her upper limit.
.
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:08 am

The problem is the wide variance of the guitars, so one really has to check them ... And 'built by Camps in Spain' can stand for many things. The regulations are not that strong, it's probabely enogh that some finishing process like installing the tuners is doe in Spain, I guess..
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by Keith » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:31 pm

Do a search on Swiss Made and one can find a plethora of information about the rules and regs. Here is what I found about Made in Spain. Sadly I was only able, via not spending that much time, to find info from Wikipedia. Not sure if this is the definitive answer nor does it answer the question, is built in Spain the same as Made in Spain? My Swiss Made automatic watch I am wearing I know down to the percentage but the Camps guitar.....who really knows.

Back to the question--try out the guitar especially relatively new to this arena.

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be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

xle25
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by xle25 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:04 pm

andreas777 wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:44 am
There are different types of flamenca negras, some of them are constructed as flamenco guitars but with a rosewood back, and some of them are constructed as classical guitars but with a golpeador. I own a Camps Primera blanca. This guitar has a weight of only 1400g and is a pure flamenco guitar. If the negra version has the same construction as the blanca version, then I would not recommend to play classical pieces on it. Furthermore I own an Hermanos Sanchis Lopez 1f extra with a Pau Ferro back. This is also a flamenca negra but its construction is more like a classical guitar, and it has a weight of 1630g. Such a guitar would be a good choice to play both styles. The price of a new guitar is more on the €2500 level but you could buy a used one. (And I don't know the other guitar you mentioned, the Cordoba gk pro.)
Hi thx for the rep, im looking for a sanchhis 1f used but i dont find something good, im still thinking buy a camps or a hermanos sanchis solea is like a 2f

xle25
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Re: Mix of classical and flameco guitar for 1500€

Post by xle25 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:06 pm

Ramon Amira wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:14 pm
A Francisco Navarro Student model Negra is a signed label luthier constructed guitar, and would be just right for you, and is only a bit over $1000.

Ramon
Hi thx, im from spain, barcelona, and i cant get the guitar here, i saw the web page from francisco navarro but they dont delivered guitars to spain

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