Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

drmlyung
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by drmlyung » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:30 am

Rokutaro and Sakazo were brothers. Roktaro passed away in his prime, and Sakazo was 80+ when he passed away.

bullpuppy
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by bullpuppy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:59 pm

I just purchased my first rokutaru nakade. It is a 1972 A70. From other posts I am assuming that the 70 means it was priced at 70000 yen in 1972 which 10000 yen less than kohno lowest model 8 of that year. I have a sakazo nakade 1200y from 1970 which is my current favorite guitar. I am not sure what was the top model for him in 1972 or did he signed or just stamped his models.

I am wondering if anyone else own examples from both brothers and how would you characterizes their sound. My Sakazo 1200Y is constructed like a ramirez 1a but the sound has elements of a cross between a Kohno and ramirez. Very high volume and very rich,lively, even, clarity.

Has anyone had a higher model than A70 from 1972?
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dandan
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by dandan » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:48 pm

The highest model I've seen was an A12, so 120,000¥ with beautifully figured BRW.
1969 Rokutaro Nakade A9
1966 Sakazo Nakade model D
1977 Aria AG80 (Masaru Takeiri)
1988 Hiroumi Yamaguchi SS

Aaron Powell
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:03 pm

Congratulations bullpuppy. Rokutaro Nakade produced a lovely sound. I have a 1966 which I am restoring at the moment. Recently installed new frets and have just stripped the finish. The bracing arrangement on mine is attached.
bullpuppy wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:59 pm
I just purchased my first rokutaru nakade. It is a 1972 A70. From other posts I am assuming that the 70 means it was priced at 70000 yen in 1972 which 10000 yen less than kohno lowest model 8 of that year. I have a sakazo nakade 1200y from 1970 which is my current favorite guitar. I am not sure what was the top model for him in 1972 or did he signed or just stamped his models.

I am wondering if anyone else own examples from both brothers and how would you characterizes their sound. My Sakazo 1200Y is constructed like a ramirez 1a but the sound has elements of a cross between a Kohno and ramirez. Very high volume and very rich,lively, even, clarity.

Has anyone had a higher model than A70 from 1972?
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bullpuppy
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by bullpuppy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:12 am

It's great to have a chance to restore a great guitar..

Aaron Powell
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:21 am

bullpuppy wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:12 am
It's great to have a chance to restore a great guitar..
Yes, I was originally going to sell it but started playing it and realized it has a pleasing tone. I had been so enamored by another guitar I did not give it enough attention when i first got it. Decided to keep and restore it. Mine has seen very large fluctuations in humidity and temperature but is (surprisingly) un-cracked. It is an "A" model but have no idea what it means and is labelled and stamped like yours.

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:24 pm

Aaron Powell wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:21 am
Yes, I was originally going to sell it but started playing it and realized it has a pleasing tone. I had been so enamored by another guitar I did not give it enough attention when i first got it. Decided to keep and restore it. Mine has seen very large fluctuations in humidity and temperature but is (surprisingly) un-cracked. It is an "A" model but have no idea what it means and is labelled and stamped like yours.
I think "A" does not mean anything, all Rokutaru's models started with A and the number after A indicated the price. See here

Does your Nakade have straight or curved fretboard (releif along the strings)? Mine is straight which may require higher action. I'm also restoring mine at the moment including reftetting and I'm thinking of making the fretboard slightly curved to improve playability.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

Aaron Powell
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:14 pm

eno wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:24 pm
I think "A" does not mean anything, all Rokutaru's models started with A and the number after A indicated the price. See here

Does your Nakade have straight or curved fretboard (releif along the strings)? Mine is straight which may require higher action. I'm also restoring mine at the moment including reftetting and I'm thinking of making the fretboard slightly curved to improve playability.
My fretboard was in such bad condition I never studied the original setup closely. It was highly unplayable. If it had relief along the strings originally it would have not been much, as I did scrape a little bit more relief. The original frets were worn and the with the ebony fingerboard they ended up concave as well. After re-shaping the fingerboard and with the original design action high, I had to lower the action. I sanded down the tops of the saddle slot on bridge and re-shaped. Saddle slot was very deep so there was scope to work it. Strings ended up closer to the sound board than I preferred (around 9mm) but thankfully no detriment to sound that I could tell. Due to fingerboard condition had to go with medium wide frets. I am thankful the fingerbord was unusually thick at just over 7mm and had material to work with. I'm satisfied with the setup now.

Now I am on the 320 grit sanding for the re-finish. I was going to french polish, but have changed my mind seeing the gorgeous rosewood. I will use Liberon Finishing Oil. 3 coats on the top and 4 on the sides and back open pore.

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:39 am

Oh, nice! I'm doing exactly the same, removed bent concaved and rusted frets, just finished scraping back and sides with 400, working on the soundboard. Mine fretboard is not bad, pretty straight. I also planned French polishing. Why do you think oil finish would be better even for the top? It's a good choice for back and sides but I think it's a common opinion that French on top is best for the sound.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

Aaron Powell
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:42 am

Hi eno, interesting we are doing the same work on very similar guitars at the same time.

Regarding best sound I am trusting Kevin Aram knows what he is doing, who uses the same hand rubbed oil finish.

Mine is not adorned with a spectacular rosette, purfling, and marquetry; but does have lovely old timber so I thought I would draw the attention to the natural timber. Decided the Ezo spruce top deserved the same type of finish as the back and sides.

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:10 am

OK, thanks Aaron, may be I'll do the same. There is interesting discussion on this topic here. I've never tried Liberon. Do you polish between the Liberon coats? Do you wipe after brushing or just brush without wiping?

It was also interesting to see some signs of my guitar history: it was played a lot as I could see some finger wear signs on the fretboard, but then it was abandoned for a long time so that the frets rusted, tuners broke and stings were totally black.

Aaron Powell
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:49 am

Planning to sand up to 800 grit and consider 1200 if required. Wipe on oil with a cloth, sit for 5 minutes and then wipe off with cloth. No finishing between coats with an off the rag finish. Not many coats going for Matt finish. After a few weeks to harden all buff with cloth to smooth out the feel of the surface.

Mine has no fingernail marks or string dents behind bridge. Top has plenty of "spider veins" where the lacquer cracks were, and there were many!

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:53 am

Mine had the same lacquer cracks all over, a common problem for vintage Japanese guitars
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:54 pm

There is an article "A Rubbed-Oil Finish Method for Classical Guitar " by Kevin Aram in American Lutherie #127, I'm going to order that journal issue to read
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

MessyTendon
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by MessyTendon » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:39 pm

Oil is easy...just use a flat brush to lightly apply to the top. Rub in let dry, wipe...apply a few thin coats. That's it.

You can rub the hell out of the back and sides and neck too...But take note that a heavy application can add perceived weight to the neck.

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