Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Aaron Powell
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:38 pm

eno wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:54 pm
There is an article "A Rubbed-Oil Finish Method for Classical Guitar " by Kevin Aram in American Lutherie #127, I'm going to order that journal issue to read
Thanks for the update. Looks interesting, please let me know if what I have been doing with the oil is very different than his. I have had good results so far but always room for improvement.

Will you be doing anything to 'treat' the crack stains? I just left mine as is after sanding, most are all still there.

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:19 pm

Strangely I don't see any crack stains after sanding, possibly because it was not played for the last few decades.
You can try to bleach them (oxalic acid, peroxide, chlorine bleach)

Bu the way, Liberon will highlight those stains even more
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

Aaron Powell
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:51 pm

Thanks for that eno.
I have a deck wood cleaner with the following ingredients:
Water >60%
Oxalic acid 5-<10%
Alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride 1-<5%

Do you think it would damage the wood? If good should it be diluted? Was wondering if it could be used on the inside to clean as well.

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:04 am

I don't know, I'm not a prof luthier and haven't done it myself, I just read about that. May be open a new thread and ask the profies
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:42 pm

Aaron Powell wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:38 pm
Thanks for the update. Looks interesting, please let me know if what I have been doing with the oil is very different than his. I have had good results so far but always room for improvement.

Will you be doing anything to 'treat' the crack stains? I just left mine as is after sanding, most are all still there.
I got the article. Basically he uses a technique very similar to French polish - rubbing with cotton pad lightly soaked with Liberon with circular motions. Important to avoid any runs. He recommends sanding with up to 2000 grit but I don't know if it's necessary, I stopped at 1000. I did the first layer and it looks good so far.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

Aaron Powell
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:40 pm

eno wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:42 pm
I got the article. Basically he uses a technique very similar to French polish - rubbing with cotton pad lightly soaked with Liberon with circular motions. Important to avoid any runs. He recommends sanding with up to 2000 grit but I don't know if it's necessary, I stopped at 1000. I did the first layer and it looks good so far.
Thanks for the info and update eno, glad it's working out for you. I stop at 1200 grit. Please post a photo when complete if able. I've had problems with runs as I soaked the pad too much. Cheers Aaron

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:16 am

I finished restoration of my Rokutaro - refretting, refinish, new tuners. I still put French on the top, the rest is 7 layers of Liberon. I didn't actually like Liberon as much as I like French. French smells, feels and looks better IMHO and it's all-natural and not toxic (I use pure Ethanol), although a bit more labor intensive.
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Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

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rinneby
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by rinneby » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:35 am

eno wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:16 am
I finished restoration of my Rokutaro - refretting, refinish, new tuners. I still put French on the top, the rest is 7 layers of Liberon. I didn't actually like Liberon as much as I like French. French smells, feels and looks better IMHO and it's all-natural and not toxic (I use pure Ethanol), although a bit more labor intensive.
Wow, most impressive work. Well done. Expect it to wake up in the coming month or so :)

/Jon
1977 - Kuniharu Nobe No.15
1997 - Dragan Musulin
2004 - Alain Raifort Grand Concert
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt Torres

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

Aaron Powell
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:05 pm

Looks great eno! I prefer the FP too but I just love oil on the old world rosewood. This time I went to 2000 grit as per your information, and I think it is a better off rag finish with the higher grit. I only use 3 coats though so not much depth of finish to work with. My Rokutaro just got its 2nd coat so only 1 more to go. It's been a long restoration and miss playing it.

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eno
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Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by eno » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:11 pm

What I didn't like about Liberon is its terrible smell, it's still stinks but I hope it will go away eventually. And it looks plasticky. It darkens the wood and highlights its patterns, and I like it on the neck where the wood is lighter, but it made back and sides really dark so I can hardly see any Rosewood patterns. I'm thinking of sanding the Liberon finish a little bit and putting FP on top of it after a few months when Liberon fully hardens.

I'm very impressed with my 1967 Rokutaro. After 4 hours of playing yesterday I can only say that this is a truly extraordinary guitar. Her sound brings me to tears.

I also got another Rokutaro A1 model from 1962 (with label in English) and that turned out to be a rather mediocre instrument, good sound overall but not anything outstanding. I guess the 1967 Roukutaro with label in Japanese was probably a custom order for some Japanese customer.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967
Rokutaro Nakade 1967, 1962

Aaron Powell
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Rokutaro Nakade Guitars

Post by Aaron Powell » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:46 pm

Finishing Oil gets glossier the more coats you put on. I put on three but really I like only two coats which gives an outstanding natural look. You used plenty of coats so the sheen built up, you can use abrasive to cut it back. Then perhaps a light coat to finish. It is very good for sides and back as it resists wells from chemicals. Smell goes away slowly.

All string mine up later today. I miss the warm inviting sound.

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