Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Professor Ding Bat

Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby Professor Ding Bat » Mon May 11, 2015 5:05 pm

I recently received delivery of a new Yamaha NCX2000R acoustic/electric guitar, purchased online. I had a hard time finding any reviews on this instrument, but still did quite a bit of research prior to pulling the trigger. Previous to this purchase I had gone through 4 (online)guitars and was very disappointed in the level of sound and setup quality with each, and they all were in the $3-4k price range. After those experiences, I decided to try this Yamaha due to it's functionality and the company's reputation for making some very high level classical guitars. It has the usual specs found in classical models and it does have a pickup/preamp for amplification, which is something I want to have in at least one of my guitars for stage amplification. Overall, I am quite happy with this instrument. It has a very balanced tone with a good amount of depth to it, the playability is very good, and it sounds very good amplified with no coloration through a Fishman AS220 system. However, there are some aspects that I find a bit disconcerting - I have fret buzz of two types on the D string. The first order of buzz is where the string does not come fully to rest on the top of the fret where the note is being fretted, causing the string to chatter on the top of the fret. This happens in the lower positions I-IV and results in a fuzzy sound robbing clarity and sustain (changed strings to a higher tension, which helped but the buzz is still there). The second type of buzz is from adjacent frets coming in contact with the string and happens in positions VI-VIII. Since this guitar has an adjustable truss rod, I decided to loosen the truss rod to give is some relief so as to remove the second order buzzing, and quickly found that the truss rod was already at the end of its throw, so the only movement possible to affect any change would be to tighten it, which is going the wrong way. I could take this guitar to my luthier and see if he can take the bugs out, but I'm not sure I want to incur the additional expense and he can only go so far before the guitar becomes unreturnable.

I am wondering if anyone else on this forum has had experience with this model who would care to share their experience and knowledge.

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Moje
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby Moje » Sun May 17, 2015 8:29 pm

Professor Ding Bat wrote:The first order of buzz is where the string does not come fully to rest on the top of the fret where the note is being fretted, causing the string to chatter on the top of the fret.


Does this happen when your LH finger is right next to the fret, or only in cases where other fingers force the finger on the 4th string a little farther back (as with a typical A chord?)

Anyway taking a guitar that's under warranty in for unauthorized repairs is a bad idea and there's no easy fix for this. If the neck is already slack there's no way to make it slacker, waste of time. Return it.

Frankly I couldn't believe the price of the Yamaha, you can buy a world-class concert guitar (used) for that. Yamaha steel-strings are great but their classicals are meh, IMO.
2014 Michael Thames 650mm Cedar & IRW
1976 No. 10 Sakurai 660mm Spruce & IRW

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sxedio
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby sxedio » Sun May 17, 2015 9:52 pm

I know this sounds stupid but have you tried changing the d string? alternatively, maybe it can be fixed with a minor setup operation to raise the string a bit higher up, or some fret filing?
(Gr) (En) (very little Fr)

Joe de V
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby Joe de V » Sun May 17, 2015 10:47 pm

What is the difference between the Yamaha Model NCX 2000R priced at $2,999.99 By Amazon and their Model NCX 1200R selling new for exactly $982.when after reading the details it appears to be very similar in construction in their designation. A sizable $2017.99 price increase!!! You are thinking about doing what I would do if I were in your position. Return it.

Professor Ding Bat

Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby Professor Ding Bat » Sat May 30, 2015 4:12 pm

I appreciate all the comments. In answer to the question - what is the difference between the 2000R and the 1200R - the 2000 is more of a custom instrument, made in Japan as opposed to China factory made, the bracing on the top is also a bit more sophisticated, and the top is made of Hokkaido (Enzo) spruce which is now quite rare, in contrast to Sitka Spruce, in all other respects the design is the same. One item of note is that the nut on this guitar is 52mm wide, which is great, but the string spacing is such that on both E strings there is a ton of wasted space between those strings and the fret board edge. The mean spacing between strings is 8.1mm and ideally that should be closer to 9mm. As a result, finger buzz is more likely in this setup. If I end up keeping the guitar, I will definitely get a new nut made with proper spacing. Additionally, the fret wire has a height profile of .0425in, which is not bad but it could be higher, as would be my preference.

I was really enjoying this guitar outside of the buzzing issues. It has really good tone and excellent payability. The action is set rather low but I don't believe that is the main factor contributing to the buzzing issues mentioned in my initial post. I took the guitar to my luthier friend and he found that the fretboard over the body was raised just enough that the fret height was impeding string vibration when fretting in positions 6-10 especially on the A and D strings. I had changed out the strings twice to see if string tension would make a difference, finally going to Hannabach Goldin's which have high tension approaching 100lbs total, to no effect, still buzzing. The neck appears almost completely straight to the body, but if I could get some relief out of the truss rod, perhaps that could take the buzzing out. As my previous post indicated, the truss rod appeared to be at the end of its useful adjustment, so the only thing left was to return it. I started that process with the dealer and they referred me first to Yamaha to see if they could help. I ended up speaking to a guitar tech there and he indicated that the truss rod is a dual action design which allows you to set in either bow or relief. He said that there is an area of play between the bow and relief directions and that that was probably the area I was in and to continue turning the truss rod adjustment counter-clockwise to get more relief. So I agreed to try that. I kept turning and turning the adjustment and I got so far as 10 full revolutions with the head backing out of the truss rod channel with no engagement, at which point I figured I'd better stop or the screw at the other end might drop out. I called the tech again and he offered to exchange the guitar for another one through the dealer, so that is now the direction this is headed. If the guitar was just mediocre, I would not even continue to pursue this, but the other qualities of this instrument make it worth the extra hassle. I bought this particular guitar for the purpose of using it in amplified situations and it sounds very natural through my Fishman SA220 with a lot of room for adjustment in the on-board preamp. The cutaway is also an advantage to access higher playing positions and it does not diminish the acoustic sound appreciably.

I will update this thread when I am able to evaluate the replacement for this guitar. Hoping to have good news to report.

craigh
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby craigh » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:53 pm

how is the projection of your guitar ? I have owned the NCX2000FM for several years now and the playability is amazing but i find the overall projection quite weak like most crossovers . It's hard to go back to a standard classical after playing this one too ...

Professor Ding Bat

Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby Professor Ding Bat » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:18 am

I received the replacement for the original NCX2000R about a week ago. It took a while due to back and forth between manufacturer and dealer, the former on the west coast and the latter on the east coast. Long story short, I ended up sending the replacement back for a refund and I am done pursuing this particular guitar. In the process, I learned that this model is being discontinued and will soon no longer be available new, which is just as well, since it has issues.

Here are my findings:
1. As far as playability goes, the action is about as low as can be found on a classical. However, I still encountered the two types of fret buzz that i had with the original guitar, buzzing on the fretted note and the other type of buzzing on adjacent frets at the VI to IX positions especially on the D and A strings.
2. Again, the truss rod was of no use with regards to adjusting out the second type of buzz. The Yamaha tech I spoke to said that this guitar has a dual action trust rod which gives you two kinds of bow. As far as I can tell, the truss rod that was installed in both guitars was a single action type offering no forward relief adjustment.
3. The nut is a standard classical width at 52mm, but the clearance from the edge of the nut to both E strings is HUGE! In order to really make this a more playable guitar, I would have to get a new nut made for it. It's almost as if the design was intended for use as a crossover guitar, but why would you want to waste all that space at the edges? Why not just make the nut width 48mm, like most crossovers?
4. The saddle also is poorly designed. The top surface is flat and angled down towards the tie block. This allows the treble strings to float just enough to have a weird just noticeable pinging sound. The top of the saddle should be radiused to provide minimal contact area for maximum down pressure and a solid anchor. When I changed strings I also found that the saddle was lose enough to fall out when the guitar is turned upside down. Should be snug in the channel. So, again, i would have to get a new saddle made, which would mean more expense.
5. The frets are of the most wimpy variety I can imagine. They almost look like they are intended for a mandolin or something. Thin, not tall, and the profile does not have a proper radius, leading to the type of fret buzz where fretted notes do not anchor properly and thus vibrate on the fret creating a fuzzy sound, robbing sustain. This happens mainly in the lower positions on both D and A strings.
6. In answer to the projection question, this guitar is rather quiet and subdued acoustically, although subjectively I would say that the original guitar seemed to have a louder acoustic voice than it's replacement.
7. The one thing this guitar has going for it is that it sounds very good when amplified. I plugged it into my Fishman SA220 and it really shines there. The onboard tuner is also a nice feature and is very accurate when compared with a high quality Snark tuner. The volume control is great in that when you turn it to zero there is no output, nice for live situations. Noise level is very low and the two pickup controls are a nice feature as well for adjusting the presence of bass to treble strings.

In conclusion, this guitar seems more trouble than it's worth. Even with the admirable aspect of good sound when amplified, if I was really crazy about it, I'd spend almost an extra $500 on additional modifications that a $3000 guitar should have already come with - new nut, saddle, and frets...and even then, I'd still have a truss rod that is basically useless. Thankfully, I have the option of a refund from the dealer, otherwise I'd have ended up with another dust collector.

Philosopherguy
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby Philosopherguy » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:36 am

Your experience is too bad. Usually Yamaha guitars are very high quality in the fit and finish. I have owned numerous Yamaha GC series guitars and they have all been set up really nice with excellent playability. I would tend to just get a good guitar and spend a little to get a good pickup installed. That way, you will have the best of both worlds and won't be compromising on the instrument. I know Ramirez makes some models with pickups installed if you want to buy it already completed. You might want to check them out if you are able to. You might end up paying a little more, but you would get a nice classical out of it at least.

Good luck!

Regards,
Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

Professor Ding Bat

Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby Professor Ding Bat » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:15 am

Funny you should mention Ramirez. I have one on the way that I purchased online, a 2CWE. I also have given a lot of thought to having a good pickup installed in a good guitar, and who knows, it might just come to that. I need to spend more time at the guitar amplification page.

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sxedio
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby sxedio » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:06 pm

Let us know what you think of the 2CWE, I was considering one for a while but decided that for my purposes a cheap yamaha was good enough :)
(Gr) (En) (very little Fr)

DanielIndo
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby DanielIndo » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:21 am

Dear guitar lovers colleague
I am Daniel from Surabaya, Indonesia. I bought NCX 2000FM 2 weeks ago, I love it, mine is the only one on the store, thus cannot do anything, take it or leave it. No buzzes even it was set "lower than conventional classical guitar" as in Yamaha advertisement, great sustain and longer than my Yamaha GC41. I think Indonesian humidity which more than 70% helps the stability of the guitar wood parts that may also "change" the frets position (some are higher).When I bought my Juan Hernandez Maestro in Irvine, LA in Mr Fernandez workshop which is also his house, he showed me how to parrarelize the frets tp avoid from buzzes. I asked him to lower the saddle.....and amazingly there was no buzz even with normal tension string. Maybe the buzzes originated from some frets which need "retuned". I still love my Yamaha 150a from the 1976. Be a proud Yamaha owner.
2005 Jose Ramirez 1a Sakurai Kohno Special 2015
2005 Amalio Burguet 1F
2001 Juan Hernandez Maestro
2009 Loriente Angela
2011 Yamaha GC41
2015 Yamaha NCX2000FM

DanielIndo
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby DanielIndo » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:59 am

It is nearly one month that I owned NCX2000FM, there is no problem with it. It has a long sustain, also like the sound of Hokkaido spruce, more artistic than my other spruce guitar. I do not change the manufacture nut and saddle set up, just asked the shop to change with Savarez strings which did not remember the Tension, maybe further setup may result a better sound. I play it everyday and love it. Regards from Indonesia.
2005 Jose Ramirez 1a Sakurai Kohno Special 2015
2005 Amalio Burguet 1F
2001 Juan Hernandez Maestro
2009 Loriente Angela
2011 Yamaha GC41
2015 Yamaha NCX2000FM

lsume
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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby lsume » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:07 pm

I very recently purchased a Yamaha NCX2000R. I've spent a good deal of time working the saddle to improve the action. Something
that I have noticed is that the angle of the headstock is not steep enough. The 1st string hits the headstock. I have filed the nut down a bit but very little to no filing on the 1st string grove on the nut.

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Re: Yamaha NCX2000R Experience

Postby GeoffB » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:34 pm

Hi Isume, welcome to the forum. Could I ask you to introduce yourself here?

Geoff
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