advice on P.B royal and especial

Tapin
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:07 am

advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by Tapin » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:54 pm

hello guys,

need a suggestion about these guitars made by Paulino Bernabe. I own sakurai PC at the moment, and want to upgrade to a best guitar available in market. I do a lot of research and it seems P.B royal is one of the best out there.

my question is, the price for royal, is it worth the guitar? or should I take the especial which is half the price?

anyway i read a lot of comments about overpriced guitar made by famous luthiers, any suggestions are welcome or maybe other recommendation for best guitar beside Bernabe. (price is not the problem, but I dont prefer to queue a year or two for a guitar)

I really want to buy just one guitar which I can keep for a lifetime and be satisfied with it. Hopefully can pass to next generation. Thank you

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keithwwk
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by keithwwk » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:59 am

Two days ago I happened to touched and played a P.B Royal with 40 yrs old all solid Cedar/Brazilian Rosewood that sound beautiful and soulfu. Very even and balance, deep and dimensional. However, I am limited experience on cg. So my comment may not help at all. I just wanted to say it out... :bravo:
Cheers!
Antonio Picado Model 60 Spruce 2017
M.Sakurai No.5 Cedar 1976
Yamaha G225

Tapin
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by Tapin » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:48 am

Thank you keithwwk, I'm considering greg smallman guitar also. Any comments and suggestions are welcome.

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petermc61
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by petermc61 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:27 am

Tapin wrote:Thank you keithwwk, I'm considering greg smallman guitar also. Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
Smallman and Berbabe will sound nothing alike. I am rather confused what sort of guitar you are after.

quixilver
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by quixilver » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:24 am

petermc61 wrote:
Tapin wrote:Thank you keithwwk, I'm considering greg smallman guitar also. Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
Smallman and Berbabe will sound nothing alike. I am rather confused what sort of guitar you are after.
I believe OP is looking for a best guitar available in market.
Not sure if somebody could come up with the undisputed answer... "the best" is in the eye of the beholder, I guess :chaud:

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petermc61
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by petermc61 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:30 am

There is no best guitar. There are very nice examples from a range of very good luthiers.

quixilver
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by quixilver » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:39 am

Tapin wrote:Thank you keithwwk, I'm considering greg smallman guitar also. Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
Hi Tapin... Welcome to Delcamp!
Since I saw that you are currently in Jakarta and starting to learn classical guitar, may I know who is your teacher or which music school do you go to? I know quite a lot of classical guitar teachers there and some of them are members in this forum too!

ben etow
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by ben etow » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:21 am

Hi Tapin,

I totally agree with petermc61. There is no such thing as THE best guitar.

I tried the whole Bernabé range at Casa Luthier at 2 occasions (around 2000), including a Especial and Imperial (or Royal? Can't remember). I believe Bernabé to have a very consistent range, but I must say I was disppointed by the top models. Unlike the PB models I tried in the 90's, I found them (Especial and Imperial - possibly Royal) very heterogeneous with a very strong E on the 12th fret and ridiculous D sharp and F (11th and 13th fret) on the 1st strings. I must say both Smallmans I extensively tried were even more heterogeneous - one being IMO not an instrument suited to play music! And I am not talking about tone colour - which is a big issue too for Smallman guitars.

After trying about 850 so-called concert guitars, I believe you'll play better with any of the following guitars than with a Smallman or Bernabé Royal: Ana Espinosa, René Baarslag, Daniel Bernaert, all 3 Maríns (+ Santiago Hernández of the same family), Dieter Mueller DT, Verreydt soft/wooden lattice, Liikanen, Arnoldo García, Friederich, Lowden, that great Bernabé M30 secuolla they had at Casa Luthier back in 2002 or 2003, Liikanen, Jean-Luc Joie, John Price, Zbigniew Gnatek, Aguado y Hernández, Rubio, Eichhorn, Dietrich, Marty.

I personally prefer Jean-Luc Joie, then John Price, Zbigniew Gnatek or Dieter Mueller, Liikanen.

OldPotter
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by OldPotter » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:50 am

very strong E on the 12th fret and ridiculous D sharp and F (11th and 13th fret) on the 1st strings.
Did you mean ridiculous in a good way or.....?
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

simonm
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by simonm » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:51 am

Hi Tapin,
Tapin wrote:… i start playing guitar last year, still learning to play guitar. ….


The problem with your question is that you are looking for something that you will not be able to recognize yet.

There are a great many very good guitars available but they are all very different and the "best" for anyone one player may not please someone else at all. Until you have a lot of playing experience, a certain skill level and developed your own individual taste, you will not be able to appreciate the differences between one guitar and another. The time to upgrade a guitar is when you, or your teacher, realize that your current guitar is holding back your development as a player.

The only way to decide which is the best for you is to play a lot of guitars and compare them. If money is really no concern, and you want to buy now, then a visit to one of the major dealers who stock high end guitars would be a solution. Ideally bringing a much more experienced player with you so you can hear what it sounds like someone else's hands. Otherwise, some patience, learning more, trying guitars when you get the opportunity will almost certainly find you a "better" guitar and for a better price. Good luck in your quest.

OldPotter
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by OldPotter » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:56 am

Hi Tapin
if money is not a problem you would be better off travelling to try a lot of guitars, be prepared to spend time and don't rush.

I don't know where you find a "Royal" to try, I know of only one "Especial" for sale in the UK. I have admired the sound of a Bernabe for a while. The nearest thing soundwise might be a Ramirez 1a.

edit; I see that Simonm is of the same opinion.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

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petermc61
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by petermc61 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:06 am

I have just looked at the prices of the Especial and the Royal and I must say I am stunned. It escapes me why somebody who pay that much for a Bernabe Jr (with nicer woods and prettier finishing) when you can buy a Bernabe Sr (the name that made the Bernabe name famous) for one half to one fifth of the price - and with woods that are on par or better than anything Bernabe Jr is now using. Just don't get it.

Tapin
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by Tapin » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:47 pm

quixilver wrote:
Tapin wrote:Thank you keithwwk, I'm considering greg smallman guitar also. Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
Hi Tapin... Welcome to Delcamp!
Since I saw that you are currently in Jakarta and starting to learn classical guitar, may I know who is your teacher or which music school do you go to? I know quite a lot of classical guitar teachers there and some of them are members in this forum too!

Hi quixilver, I study guitar in Jakarta Guitar School, how about you? Are you study guitar in Jakarta too?

Tapin
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:07 am

Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by Tapin » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:52 pm

simonm wrote:Hi Tapin,
Tapin wrote:… i start playing guitar last year, still learning to play guitar. ….


The problem with your question is that you are looking for something that you will not be able to recognize yet.

There are a great many very good guitars available but they are all very different and the "best" for anyone one player may not please someone else at all. Until you have a lot of playing experience, a certain skill level and developed your own individual taste, you will not be able to appreciate the differences between one guitar and another. The time to upgrade a guitar is when you, or your teacher, realize that your current guitar is holding back your development as a player.

The only way to decide which is the best for you is to play a lot of guitars and compare them. If money is really no concern, and you want to buy now, then a visit to one of the major dealers who stock high end guitars would be a solution. Ideally bringing a much more experienced player with you so you can hear what it sounds like someone else's hands. Otherwise, some patience, learning more, trying guitars when you get the opportunity will almost certainly find you a "better" guitar and for a better price. Good luck in your quest.
Thank you for your comment, however in Indonesia, we dont have high end guitar shop here in Jakarta, it is not very popular here and it is out of range for common people here to buy it. So it is hard for me to compare best guitars from many luthiers. Nearest shop to try is Singapore. it seems P.B Royal is not so popular, maybe the price range is too expensive. Actually I just want an upgrade from my sakurai Pc model.

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Kent
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Re: advice on P.B royal and especial

Post by Kent » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:44 pm

Lots of good advice here. You can get many great guitars that would serve you well for under 7,000 USD, (6,300 EUR). Many guitar builders on this forum could help you with a nice custom build.
Another thing to keep in mind is your climate. High humidity can change a guitar's performance. May have an adverse effect a Bernabe.

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