Local woods

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Ryeman
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Local woods

Post by Ryeman » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:31 pm

And a few more,

Alan
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TheEvan
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Location: Baton Rouge

Re: Local woods

Post by TheEvan » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:12 pm

Beautiful! I love the aesthetic.

Ryeman
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Local woods

Post by Ryeman » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:44 pm

TheEvan wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:12 pm
Beautiful! I love the aesthetic.
Thank you.

Alan

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martinardo
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Location: Victoria Australia

Re: Local woods

Post by martinardo » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:02 pm

Yes Alan, I really like the simplicity. The rosette and clean lines, particularly on the back

suggests to me a byzantine feel. I think the idea of sourcing materials from one local area

is a terrific idea (even with all the associated hassle that it might inevitably involve).

I commend you on your truly original creation. :bravo:
I'm pink therefore I'm Spam

Ryeman
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Local woods

Post by Ryeman » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:33 pm

Michael.N. wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:22 am
Alan. If you scraped the larch did you then use the tru oil. . . or did you scrape, sand and then use the tru oil?
We need to know the purity of your methods.
Apologies, I missed answering this.
Yes I used tru oil. I've never used it before. Got it from David Dyke, along with instructions on how to use it. These, basically, said there were two "secrets"
Get the wood as smooth as possible before applying the tru oil.
Apply the oil in thin coats, wiping on then immediately wiping off, to prevent the oil penetrating the wood too much.

To achieve a very smooth finish Micro-Mesh was recommended, going through all the grades from 1500 up to 12000, after first sanding with garnet or lubrisil 240 and 320. I actually used a scraper first, on all wood surfaces including the larch. Then I used 240 lubrisil, then 320 lubrisil, followed by the micro mesh. This was a tedious process as there are 9 grades to get through. But I was amazed by the finish achieved. The wood, including the larch, ended up very smooth; silky smooth, with a noticable shine.
This dulled down somewhat after the first coat of tru oil. The instructions said to let this dry then rub down very lightly with 0000 wire wool, then do the same after subsequent coats. But 0000 wire wool had very little effect, so I lightly rubbed down with the final 3 grades of micro-mesh. This did the trick so I did it 24 hours after each subsequent coat.
In all I applied 5 coats of tru oil at one day intervals. I let the last coat harden for a week, then, lightly rubbed it down with micro-mesh 6000, 8000 and 12000. Then I burnished everything with Triopli powder mixed with 3 in 1 oil. I always used this to finish instruments dine with brushed on shellac, and it worked equally well with tru oil.

I would definitely use tru oil again. Applying it was very easy, though going through all those micro mesh grades was bit tedious. After four months the finish has proved itself to be practical and durable, though I have to confess that the small amount of time I spend actually playing the guitar is hardly likely to wear out the finish.

Alan

Ryeman
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Local woods

Post by Ryeman » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:34 pm

martinardo wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:02 pm
Yes Alan, I really like the simplicity. The rosette and clean lines, particularly on the back

suggests to me a byzantine feel. I think the idea of sourcing materials from one local area

is a terrific idea (even with all the associated hassle that it might inevitably involve).

I commend you on your truly original creation. :bravo:
Thank you for your very kind comments,

Alan

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Stephen Faulk
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:27 am

Re: Local woods

Post by Stephen Faulk » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:44 pm

Michael.N. wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:55 pm
Good decision on the model. You worried about wide grained wood? No fear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdI0cyCTDRo

Doesn't sound too bad considering some of that grain must be a heady 4 or 5 grains per inch! So much for master grade tonewood.

Not convinced? How about Bouchet's first guitar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-Nw9TKaso#t=10

Difficult to see on that video but take a look at the GSI photo's:

http://www.guitarsalon.com/store/p4893- ... uchet.html

We might be down to 3 or 4 grains per inch!

In any case that type of romantic guitar has a relatively stiff soundboard, nowhere near the flexible nature of the Spanish models. Think of the lute and how all the braces make for a rigid soundboard. I'm pretty sure a reasonably light weight pine (or fir) is suitable and I wouldn't worry too much about a 3 or 4 piece top.
I've used laburnum for a fretboard. It's hard enough providing the player keeps the nails trimmed. You probably know that laburnum starts off a bit green looking but it does turn a fairly dark brown eventually.
I heard Bouchet cut the top for his first guitar by hand from a shelf board.
I just looked at the Bouchet #1, very nice way he tucked the back binding into the heel cap squared off. Torres did that too, but Bouchet added a tiny sliver of wood to end the squared off binding. Clever. Too bad it has pegs, that maker will never go anywhere.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

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Stephen Faulk
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Re: Local woods

Post by Stephen Faulk » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:53 pm

Ryeman wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:31 pm
And a few more,

Alan
Beautiful, I missed in the reading, again what are the back and sides wood? I like all the details too, the headstock joint is great and all it implies and makes a success of.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

Ryeman
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Local woods

Post by Ryeman » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:45 pm

Stephen, thanks for your kind comments. The back and sides wood is European ash, and the dark decorative strips are laburnum.

Alan

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Stephen Faulk
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Re: Local woods

Post by Stephen Faulk » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:10 pm

Looks like you put tons "laburum" into making it.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

Ryeman
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Local woods

Post by Ryeman » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:41 pm

Stephen Faulk wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:10 pm
Looks like you put tons "laburum" into making it.
Yes, I realised the best approach was to LABUR til I was NUM.

Alan

Roberto001
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:42 am
Location: Santiago, Chile

Re: Local woods

Post by Roberto001 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:32 am

Ryeman wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:04 pm
Hello Roberto,
I finished the guitar about four months ago, strung it with cheap Classical nylon strings and was immediately surprised by the amount of volume coming from a small bodied instrument. The quality of sound was very nice to my ears, not quite a Classical sound, but it is a Romantic guitar after all, not a Classical. I should say that I am no player, and no expert on the sound of the Classical guitar (nor on how to build them! ) A friend who plays seemed very impressed by it. Then another friend came to stay who is a concert violinist, and has an excellent ear. He played my guitar first with the cheap Classical string, then we re-strung it with Aquilla Ambra900 strings, that people on this forum recommended for a Romantic guitar. He thought these were much better, and said they produced a more refined sound. I could hear quite a difference myself. My violinist friend was actually very complimentary about the sound,so the Larch top isn't a flop. But just how good it is I honestly don't know. I guess I would have to build another Romantic guitar, with back and sides of Ash, like the first one, but use a nice piece of Alpine Spruce for the top; then compare sounds. I might just do that as I have a lovely piece of 45 year old spruce that is too small for a classical size top.
I called the guitar the Ryedale Guitar, because Ryedale is my local area, and all the woods came from here. A friend thought the bone for the nut and saddle should come from a local cow! I am working on this. In the end I used Blackthorn for the pegs, Damson (very similar to Blackthorn) for the bridge, Laburnum for the fingerboard and decorative lines, Ash for the back sides neck and head, and Larch for the top.
A final word on the Larch. It wasn't easy to work. It is quite fibrous, and tears out when being planed. But I got a good finish with a sharp scraper. The Summer growth is much harder than the early growth, making it tricky to cut out the channel for the rosette. But it all worked out ok in the end.

Alan
Hi Alan,
Sorry for the late response. I´m glad everything worked out ok!!
The guitar is beautiful.

Regards,
Roberto

Ryeman
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Local woods

Post by Ryeman » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:16 am

Many thanks Roberto,

Alan

theknowle
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Location: Staffordshire UK

Re: Local woods

Post by theknowle » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:12 pm

Re laburnum. Isn't it supposed to be quite toxic?

Ryeman
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Local woods

Post by Ryeman » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:24 pm

theknowle wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:12 pm
Re laburnum. Isn't it supposed to be quite toxic?
I have read various reports about its toxicity. Some say the dust is toxic, and will make you feel ill, but it won't kill you. Others say it can make you feel slightly unwell. Others say the effects of breathing in the dust are no worse than those caused by breathing in most other woods.
All I can say is that I sawed up quite a few pieces of laburnum on my rather primitive circular saw which doesn't have dust extraction, and felt no ill-effects.
I do find wood dust irritating to the sinuses these days, and am careful to leave both workshop doors wide open when I use the circular saw. This means I can get away without using a mask, which I find a bit of a pain..
I have the feeling that the amount of exposure is the key thing here. You might suffer no adverse effects from cutting up a small amount of Laburnum. But if you are cutting it up regularly in large quantities you might well suffer for it. This happened to a professional longbow maker I used to know when he worked with Yew. After years of regular exposure to the dust he became very debilitated, suffering constant nausea and stomach pains, and ended up quite ill. He stopped using Yew, had his workshop thoroughly cleaned and "de-dusted", and made a full recovery. He told me that the immune system can cope with small or moderate exposure to yew dust. But it gives up if it is constantly bombarded by the stuff.

Alan

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