crack

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Laudiesdad69
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crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:52 pm

Anybody know how to fix this?
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Laudiesdad69
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Re: crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:14 pm

This is he guitar that I gave to my son for Christmas. Unfortunately he didn't keep the in case humidifiers wet enough. He lives in Colorado Springs and has had lots of cold, dry weather. Any body know what repairing is might cost?

astro64
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Location: American Southwest

Re: crack

Post by astro64 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:38 pm

Not that expensive I would think. Assuming nothing inside came loose. Rehumidify, glue the crack and put some cleats inside. Clamping those would seem a bit of a pain given the crack is right at the edge of the fretboard. Luthier Randy Reynolds is in Colorado Springs, and I think Larry Breslin too. If they can't do the repair they can probably recommend someone.

Philosopherguy
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Re: crack

Post by Philosopherguy » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:59 pm

This is a very common place for a guitar to crack. This kind of crack happens to many of the R series of Ramirez guitars that I have seen (oddly enough, I have never seen an NE or E series that has done this). But, I think most luthiers won't charge much at all for this. Humidify, glue and cleat and you are all set to go. This just mostly is a superficial area to crack and doesn't effect the sound or structure of the guitar at all. It cracks like this because the fingerboard wood expands and contracts at a different rate to the top and pop it goes!

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

Laudiesdad69
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Re: crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:02 pm

astro64 wrote:Not that expensive I would think. Assuming nothing inside came loose. Rehumidify, glue the crack and put some cleats inside. Clamping those would seem a bit of a pain given the crack is right at the edge of the fretboard. Luthier Randy Reynolds is in Colorado Springs, and I think Larry Breslin too. If they can't do the repair they can probably recommend someone.
:merci:

Laudiesdad69
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Re: crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:02 pm

Philosopherguy wrote:This is a very common place for a guitar to crack. This kind of crack happens to many of the R series of Ramirez guitars that I have seen (oddly enough, I have never seen an NE or E series that has done this). But, I think most luthiers won't charge much at all for this. Humidify, glue and cleat and you are all set to go. This just mostly is a superficial area to crack and doesn't effect the sound or structure of the guitar at all. It cracks like this because the fingerboard wood expands and contracts at a different rate to the top and pop it goes!

Martin
:merci:

Laudiesdad69
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Re: crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:35 pm

Philosopherguy wrote:This is a very common place for a guitar to crack. This kind of crack happens to many of the R series of Ramirez guitars that I have seen (oddly enough, I have never seen an NE or E series that has done this). But, I think most luthiers won't charge much at all for this. Humidify, glue and cleat and you are all set to go. This just mostly is a superficial area to crack and doesn't effect the sound or structure of the guitar at all. It cracks like this because the fingerboard wood expands and contracts at a different rate to the top and pop it goes!

Martin
Yeah Martin, I sent him home from Oregon to Colorado, and the RH got down real low. I sent him home with two humidifiers, but he never checked them. So it sat from December to now with no humidity basically. Local luthier wants 300 bucks ( 200 if I re humidify the guitar for 2 to 3 months before he repairs it).

He also told me how to repair it myself. Which for a $600 guitar I may very well do. I'm just wondering how I am going to clamp it, and for 200 dollars I don't know that it's worth my time.

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Michael.N.
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Re: crack

Post by Michael.N. » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:51 pm

Don't clamp it. Just see if the higher humidity closes the crack. If it doesn't I use a spruce splint in that area, very slightly enlarging the crack by cutting a V groove with a scalpel. Match the spruce and it can be very difficult to tell that it's been done at all. If you haven't got any experience in repairing cracks using that method then it's best left alone.
Don't know why he's asking you to rehumidify over a 2 or 3 month period. If it doesn't close in 2 or 3 weeks then it's unlikely to close at all.
Historicalguitars.

MessyTendon
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Re: crack

Post by MessyTendon » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:42 pm

You could just as well humidify it, let it shrink back up, give it time, then smear some hide glue in the crack or thin CA glue. It's not the best level of repair but it can be effective.

A transparent, or barely perceptible repair as Michael suggests is good too. I only did one splint job and I'm pretty amateurish. What I didn't get was a gorgeous result, but I basically got a functional guitar back in playing order for pretty cheap.

I would go ahead and attempt the repair yourself. The worst result is that you are going to have large evidence of repair, but if the repair is functional it will serve for decades.

astro64
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Location: American Southwest

Re: crack

Post by astro64 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:39 pm

With a bit of patience you can also glue cleats underneath the crack on the inside. Titebond glue, press and hold them in place with your finger. Probably 5 to 10 min each. By then the glue will hold enough for it to stay on, let dry overnight. That can be done later, after gluing the crack itself. If you are very impatient use CA glue, but there is a risk of gluing your finger to the inside of your guitar!

Laudiesdad69
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Re: crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:38 pm

I talked to Córdoba today. They said when the guitar arrives to send them pictures and their repair people will determine if it can be repaired economically or if not they will then determine where we go next. I told them that when I got the guitar the frets were sticking out past the fingerboard and they said that it sounds like the guitar was already dangerously dry when I bought it (September of 2016).
Anyway it sounds like they are going to help. My son says that the crack is now worse than in the picture on both sides of the fingerboard. So when the guitar gets here on Thursday I will take new pictures and email them to Córdoba. I will post new pics when it arrives. The local luthier wants 300 bucks and he can't guarantee it will look good afterward. And he says he wouldn't cleat.
I told Córdoba that my son didn't keep the humidity up on it. He went from Christmas to March without putting solution in his humidifiers and they understand that and say that they will do whatever they can to help. He stopped just short of promising a replacement, but said that may be cheaper for them and for me, to maybe make me a deal on the repair if possible or to replace it.

Pete Beer
Luthier
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Re: crack

Post by Pete Beer » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:08 am

Sounds like you're on your way to getting this sorted. It's the sort of crack that isn't too serious if addressed promptly. If left or repaired badly it can cause problems though.

When I saw the thread title I wondered if this was going to be similar to the one asking where to get good hard ivory!

Laudiesdad69
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Re: crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:26 am

Pete Beer wrote:Sounds like you're on your way to getting this sorted. It's the sort of crack that isn't too serious if addressed promptly. If left or repaired badly it can cause problems though.

When I saw the thread title I wondered if this was going to be similar to the one asking where to get good hard ivory!
Yeah I just found out that if I put the ivory on my guitar and travel outside the us, my guitar is subject to confiscation, especially Japan, so I might not use it except maybe on one of my classical that I will never travel with.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:56 pm

Just CA glued the crack today. Tomorrow I will polish it up. The crack in the above photo closed completely and the crack on the other side closed with just a hair line left. I placed a rag with distilled water in it inside a tin foil wrap. And placed I in the guitar for a week and it took care of the cracks and fret ends aren't sticking out as bad. This will be my camping guitar now as my Son doesn't want it back. I will post picks after I've finished up on the finish.

Laudiesdad69
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Re: crack

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:21 am

Well, to the casual eye, you can't tell. If you look up close, you can tell. It had opened up quite a bit when I got it. The picture above it was what my son sent me, before he sent it. The fret ends were sticking out ridiculously far, and now the amount of fret sticking out is so small I can either pay my luthier friend to do an A plus job on, but I am thinking of buying a file from Stewmac and doing it myself. I mean how often do worthless practice guitars for repair practice com along? Here is a photo of the same side of the guitar after glue and polish.
IMG_1116.jpg
I chose to use CA glue because it blended in with the poly finish. I used various grades of automotive sandpapers and then orbital buffed it up to match the rest of the top's finish. Yeah I used to work in a body shop so I know how to blend it in. And the other side:
IMG_1115.jpg

Up close like this you can see the line, but it mostly closed up. The thing I like about superglue is how it just seems to get sucked down into the crack. I just reapplied until it was level with the finish..
The cracks extended from the shoulder on each side and went down to the rosette.
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