We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:37 pm

This is my latest find. A Ryoji Matsuoka No.60 S with high quality solid spruce top and back and sides of CSA Rosewood. I've changed the tuners to Der-Jung and also made a new bone saddle. It's very easy on the hands with action just below 4/3mm, scale length 654mm and 52mm nut. The sound is pleasant: Warm, yet clear and responsive, just the way I like it. I'm not sure of year, but my guess is 1973-1975. Overall condition is great for a 40 year old.

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All the best from Sweden
/Jon
Last edited by rinneby on Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1965 - Masaru Kono No.5
1973 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.80
1976 - Kazuo Yairi YC-250
2007 - Lorenzo Frignani

You are the instrument, not the guitar

dandan
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by dandan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:00 pm

Very nice. Still no idea what the S stands for then? What style is the bracing? I've heard Matsuoka made copies of Fleta, Kohno, Hauser and Rubio, as well as his own unique bracing.
1969 Rokutaro Nakade A9
1966 Sakazo Nakade model D
1977 Aria AG80

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:58 pm

dandan wrote:Very nice. Still no idea what the S stands for then? What style is the bracing? I've heard Matsuoka made copies of Fleta, Kohno, Hauser and Rubio, as well as his own unique bracing.
Thank you, it's very nice indeed. I guess S stands for "Spruce" since "Solid" or "Short scale" makes no sense. This is mostly a Kohno copy from what I can tell. I think it is 6 fans + 1 slanted, so that makes it "unique".
/Jon
1965 - Masaru Kono No.5
1973 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.80
1976 - Kazuo Yairi YC-250
2007 - Lorenzo Frignani

You are the instrument, not the guitar

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:17 pm

Forgot to include in my previous post the seal of my Aria A558. Also have to say that the guitar was buzzing and that my good friend (and luthier), Christian Schwengeler, some two years ago fitted it with a new bridge bone which lowered the strings, in general, and also got rid of the buzzing. He also replaced the original tuners by new ones (don't now the model but they are nothing special).
Aria A559 (1987) seal.JPG

As you can see, it just says that it was "Hand crafted by ARIA GUITAR WORK SHOP (NAGOYA)" and which Model nº it concerns. There is no Serial nº, no date ... and no mention of whose delicate hands crafted it... :)
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Last edited by Jorge Oliveira on Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

dandan
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by dandan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:33 pm

rinneby wrote:
dandan wrote:Very nice. Still no idea what the S stands for then? What style is the bracing? I've heard Matsuoka made copies of Fleta, Kohno, Hauser and Rubio, as well as his own unique bracing.
Thank you, it's very nice indeed. I guess S stands for "Spruce" since "Solid" or "Short scale" makes no sense. This is mostly a Kohno copy from what I can tell. I think it is 6 fans + 1 slanted, so that makes it "unique".
/Jon
Sounds like Ramirez style bracing, if by one slanted you mean a larger transverse brace across the treble side of the soundboard. An unexpected combination with the Kohno style double ebony neck reinforcements. I'd guess the S does stand for spruce then, as most Ramirez copies would have a cedar top, so a spruce one would be different and therefore worth the S!
1969 Rokutaro Nakade A9
1966 Sakazo Nakade model D
1977 Aria AG80

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:54 pm

dandan wrote:
rinneby wrote:
dandan wrote:Very nice. Still no idea what the S stands for then? What style is the bracing? I've heard Matsuoka made copies of Fleta, Kohno, Hauser and Rubio, as well as his own unique bracing.
Thank you, it's very nice indeed. I guess S stands for "Spruce" since "Solid" or "Short scale" makes no sense. This is mostly a Kohno copy from what I can tell. I think it is 6 fans + 1 slanted, so that makes it "unique".
/Jon
Sounds like Ramirez style bracing, if by one slanted you mean a larger transverse brace across the treble side of the soundboard. An unexpected combination with the Kohno style double ebony neck reinforcements. I'd guess the S does stand for spruce then, as most Ramirez copies would have a cedar top, so a spruce one would be different and therefore worth the S!
Yes, according to my luthier it was "Ramirez-style" bracing, so you are absolutely right. And interesting build to say the least, I like the sound very much. Will compare it to my Aria AG-50 later today.

Update: The Matsuoka has a warmer, deeper and more present sound, while the Aria has more midrange and bite, but at the same time it's a little bit more forgiving. Right now I like the Matsuoka the most, but that might change again over time.

/Jon
Last edited by rinneby on Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1965 - Masaru Kono No.5
1973 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.80
1976 - Kazuo Yairi YC-250
2007 - Lorenzo Frignani

You are the instrument, not the guitar

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andreas777
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by andreas777 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:24 pm

rinneby wrote:This is my latest find. A Ryoji Matsuoka No.60 S with high quality solid spruce top and back...
Do you know why it has two labels inside, the first one stamped?
20 classical guitars, soon 21 :-D, 1 digital piano - no TV, no radio

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:32 pm

andreas777 wrote:
rinneby wrote:This is my latest find. A Ryoji Matsuoka No.60 S with high quality solid spruce top and back...
Do you know why it has two labels inside, the first one stamped?
That is very interesting and I actually didn't notice it until now. The label behind looks like the old original "yellow label" - Which makes it tempting to remove it, but I don't know. It was probably made in 1973-1975 as I mentioned before, with original label, then relabeled later for some reason. Looking at the decorations and woods I'm pretty sure it's a No.60, so the relabel makes no sense... Maybe the original label was incorrect and when the guitar sold years later, they didn't have the original labels left and made a special one.

Another point of interest is that the double ebony reinforcement guitars from Matsuoka was produced inly during 1972-75. And the "white label" that is now present on my guitar was made from 1976 and forward. I could of course be wrong here.

Here's a picture of the "yellow label" and the top model No.80 from 1973.

Image

/Jon
1965 - Masaru Kono No.5
1973 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.80
1976 - Kazuo Yairi YC-250
2007 - Lorenzo Frignani

You are the instrument, not the guitar

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eno
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by eno » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:32 pm

rinneby wrote:This is my latest find. A Ryoji Matsuoka No.60 S with high quality solid spruce top and back and sides of CSA Rosewood. I've changed the tuners to Der-Jung and also made a new bone saddle. It's very easy on the hands with action just below 4/3mm, scale length 654mm and 52mm nut. The sound is pleasant: Warm, yet clear and responsive, just the way I like it. I'm not sure of year, but my guess is 1973-1975. Overall condition is great for a 40 year old.
All the best from Sweden
/Jon
Usually Matsuoka's guitars have a serial number written on the neck end inside the body, first two digits is the year.

I'm a Takamine afficionado. I bought Takamine spruce C128 20 years ago and I loved it and played it for all these years. I tried many multi-K$ dollar guitars and just couldn't find any better sounding ones compared to my C128. I tried a few Kohnos and Matsuokas and at one time I even played on Hauser II and Bouchet and bunch of other high-grade guitars. I would not say that my C128 is better than Hauser or Bouchet but it stil has some mystical timbre and quality of sound that I coudn not find in any other guitar. Even higher grade Takamines didn't sound that way. C128 is a cheap student grade guitar, it's really a mystery. Recently I got Bernabe that has very special and unique timbre and sounds richer and more powerfull than C128 but I still love the sound of my C128 and play it quite often.

Honestly I was not impressed with Matsuoka and Kohno that I tried, they are definitely good sounding guitars but their sound just did not resonate with me. And I tried a plethora of Yamahas including the GC and never liked the sound. I'm very picky I guess :D
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Rokutaru Nakade 1967
Masaru Kohno 1967
Sakazo Nakade 1973
Mitsuru Tamura 1969
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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:52 pm

eno wrote:Usually Matsuoka's guitars have a serial number written on the neck end inside the body, first two digits is the year.

Honestly I was not impressed with Matsuoka and Kohno that I tried, they are definitely good sounding guitars but their sound just did not resonate with me. And I tried a plethora of Yamahas including the GC and never liked the sound. I'm very picky I guess :D
Yes, but no serial nr on this one. I got two labels instead ;)

Regarding different guitars and how they feel and sound, my humble opinion is that they are like people, you can't like them all! Often the most unexpected guitar happens to be the one you like the most, like yours for example. That makes me glad to read.

All the best from Sweden
/Jon
1965 - Masaru Kono No.5
1973 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.80
1976 - Kazuo Yairi YC-250
2007 - Lorenzo Frignani

You are the instrument, not the guitar

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:00 pm

Does anybody know of a dealer in Europe where I could buy a Masaki Sakurai guitar? Or else, can it be ordered directly from Japan? Where from exactly. Or can it be ordered directly from the factory? Your help would be much appreciated.
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:02 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:Does anybody know of a dealer in Europe where I could buy a Masaki Sakurai guitar? Or else, can it be ordered directly from Japan? Where from exactly. Or can it be ordered directly from the factory? Your help would be much appreciated.
I'd be glad to help. But first things first. New or second hand?

/Jon
1965 - Masaru Kono No.5
1973 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.80
1976 - Kazuo Yairi YC-250
2007 - Lorenzo Frignani

You are the instrument, not the guitar

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:26 pm

Many thanks for your help, Jon. I was thinking on a new one. To put things under context, I'm considering the acquisition of a good spruce top guitar, and a Japanese one to complement my Aria A558 is an option... :)
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:03 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:Many thanks for your help, Jon. I was thinking on a new one. To put things under context, I'm considering the acquisition of a good spruce top guitar, and a Japanese one to complement my Aria A558 is an option... :)
I've sent you a PM with different options. Start with sending an email to msakurai@kohno-guitar.org.

Good luck

/Jon
1965 - Masaru Kono No.5
1973 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.80
1976 - Kazuo Yairi YC-250
2007 - Lorenzo Frignani

You are the instrument, not the guitar

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:15 pm

Yes, Jon, I saw your PM, thank you. The guitar is beautiful, but I was looking for a more modern design. I'll keep looking and will follow your leads.

Best regards,

Jorge
Aria A558, 655 mm, Cedar, 1987, Nagoya, Japan
Hermanos Camps Master, 650 mm, Cedar, 2014 (Nº 3), Spain

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