We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:26 pm

es335 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:09 pm
Hi Jon and all the other Japanese classical guitar experts. I would very much appreciate if someone could provide some advance information about a Yairi Y-80 which came into my focus? Just to estimate if more serious considerations are requested.

Thanks in advance! :merci:
Before answering that question we need some more info. Is it an Y-80 (The round black label) and not YC-80? A picture would help.

If its indeed an Y-model it was probably made in the 60s or early 70s and was a higher-end model.

However In Japan the common classical models in the 70s and 80s were YC-30, YC-40, YC-50 YC-80, YC-90, YC-100 and YC-150 - Higher = Better. So an YC-80 is in the middle so to speak.
1977 - Kuniharu Nobe No.15
1997 - Dragan Musulin
2004 - Alain Raifort Grand Concert
2006 - Casimiro Lozano XXV Aniversario

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:27 pm

I posted some info about this one in the Kohno/Sakurai thread before. But I just need to share it here as well, now that I have the guitar in my hands. A Masaki Sakurai No.10 from 1977 in absolute mint condition, never seen anything like it really. It looks brand new! 650 mm scale, 52 mm nut, perfect action and plenty of room to go lower. The glowing spruce top looks to have some traces of bear-claw and the back and sides are really dark Indian rosewood. I bought to sell, but now I'm just not sure anymore... :shock: It sounds wonderful too, better than the Kohno's from the 70s I've tried so far.

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All the best from Sweden
/Jon
1977 - Kuniharu Nobe No.15
1997 - Dragan Musulin
2004 - Alain Raifort Grand Concert
2006 - Casimiro Lozano XXV Aniversario

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

es335
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Location: Germany

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by es335 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:59 pm

rinneby wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:26 pm
es335 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:09 pm
Hi Jon and all the other Japanese classical guitar experts. I would very much appreciate if someone could provide some advance information about a Yairi Y-80 which came into my focus? Just to estimate if more serious considerations are requested.

Thanks in advance! :merci:
Before answering that question we need some more info. Is it an Y-80 (The round black label) and not YC-80? A picture would help.

If its indeed an Y-model it was probably made in the 60s or early 70s and was a higher-end model.

However In Japan the common classical models in the 70s and 80s were YC-30, YC-40, YC-50 YC-80, YC-90, YC-100 and YC-150 - Higher = Better. So an YC-80 is in the middle so to speak.
It is a Y-80 and the number is stamped on a rebrand lable together with another number 52.9.7! The pictures are very poor but it is obvious that she is close to identical to this Yairi Y-80 with an original round lable! She differentiates only in the shape of the headstock which is much like of Manuel Contreras guitars.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thejohnne ... 765319832/

BTW what a beautiful Sakurai 10 guitar! Congrats! :)

BoiseClassic
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by BoiseClassic » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:50 pm

Thank you very much dandan and jebejava. I appreciate it!

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:30 pm

es335 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:59 pm
It is a Y-80 and the number is stamped on a rebrand lable together with another number 52.9.7! The pictures are very poor but it is obvious that she is close to identical to this Yairi Y-80 with an original round lable! She differentiates only in the shape of the headstock which is much like of Manuel Contreras guitars.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thejohnne ... 765319832/

BTW what a beautiful Sakurai 10 guitar! Congrats! :)
Thanks :) Regarding the Y-80, It's nice looking for sure. I have no idea how it sounds or plays. Price? Well... hard to say without trying. In good condition I would gladly try it for 400-500 Euro.

/J
1977 - Kuniharu Nobe No.15
1997 - Dragan Musulin
2004 - Alain Raifort Grand Concert
2006 - Casimiro Lozano XXV Aniversario

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

es335
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:12 pm
Location: Germany

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by es335 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:26 pm

Don’t know the actual condition but I think I will give her a try. Luckily she is close by, which reduces the risk! Thanks anyway!

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martinardo
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by martinardo » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:23 pm

Jon, your Sakurai is in amazing condition for such an old guitar. Either never played or owned by someone

even more obsessive than we are (if that's possible :) )

Does the Ibanez/Matsuoka of molasses have a four-piece back ?
I'm pink therefore I'm Spam

molasses
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by molasses » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:39 am

molasses wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:32 am
Hi Jon, thank you. I live in Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada. I attached a picture but it didn't show in my post. Would like to upload some more if you can suggest how to correctly. Thanks!...Ok the brochure you attached just showed up in your reply, wow quite a lot of information there. Thank you so much for this :D Will try to attach pics again...
[https://postimg.org/gallery/140mhkarq/]
[/quote]
Interesting. This guitar actually looks more like a Ryoji Matsuoka from the MH-series (Hauser, rather than Ramirez inspired). This leads me to believe that this is in fact a Matsuoka, but labeled as an Ibanez for some reason. If you look closely it looks like a label was removed. Google "Ryoji Matsuoka MH100" and you see what I mean.

Another clue to prove my point is that I've not yet seen a "real" Ibanez Mastercraft, looking like ones on the pictures from the brochure (that I posted above). As I said, interesting :) Do you like the guitar?

/Jon
[/quote]
Hi Jon this is very revealing and I agree with you after viewing the MH100. I always thought it looked more like a Hauser I guess this is why my search for an Ibanez GA1000 all these years yielded nothing :lol: I do like the guitar, I'm currently re-stringing it but contemplating what brand of string to use. Any suggestions?

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:50 am

molasses wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:39 am
Hi Jon this is very revealing and I agree with you after viewing the MH100. I always thought it looked more like a Hauser I guess this is why my search for an Ibanez GA1000 all these years yielded nothing :lol: I do like the guitar, I'm currently re-stringing it but contemplating what brand of string to use. Any suggestions?
A good start would be La Bella 2001 Medium or Medium/Hard tension. Otherwise Savarez Cantiga Creation 510MR or even good old Daddario EJ45/46 should to it.

But then again, strings (and guitars for that matter!) are so personal...

Best of luck!

/Jon
1977 - Kuniharu Nobe No.15
1997 - Dragan Musulin
2004 - Alain Raifort Grand Concert
2006 - Casimiro Lozano XXV Aniversario

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

molasses
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by molasses » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:20 am

Thanks Jon... It has sounded best in the past with La Bella's but the stores here don't have 'em. I will probably try the Savarez this time around. Thank you very much for your time and expertise, it is much appreciated. I will continue reading the forum so many interesting stuff here. I may yet have some more questions ahead... :)

/Irwyn

BoiseClassic
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by BoiseClassic » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:09 pm

Thanks for the information gentlemen. I sincerely appreciate it.

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Beowulf
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Beowulf » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:06 am

This is a fascinating thread which I had not seen until today. A great deal of fascinating information and discussion. As I love a Japanese guitar and will soon love two, I thought I would add a post even though I have posted some of this before in other threads

I have had a Yamaha GC-10 (1971) for 44 years now and it has been my only companion. It was made by Hideyuki Ezaki who was influenced by Eduardo Ferrer. The Yamaha guild of luthiers has been very similar in operation to the traditional Spanish workshops or guitar "houses". Just as many luthiers began as apprentices to masters, so the Yamaha craftsmen studied with renowned Spanish luthiers and then proceeded to develop their own creations with input from other Yamaha luthiers and designers. Ezaki also apprenticed with Manuel Hernandez in the early 1970s (also known by his partnership, Hernandez y Aguado). This instrument would have been made before he traveled to Spain for that collaboration.

Ezaki also worked with Toshio Kato (luthier and designer of the GC70/C) and they both spent time with Segovia taking the maestro's advice for the development of the GC71. Akio Naniki was ultimately the primary designer for the GC71. Segovia evaluated many early Yamaha concert guitars and chose the now legendary GC71 to add to his large collection of concert guitars. He also selected a cedar top GC70 for his practice guitar at his cottage.

More recently, Naniki designed the GC82S (the descendant of the GC71) and I am now awaiting one from the Custom Shop in Hammamatsu, Japan. The luthiers working on my GC82S are Naohiro Kawashima (woodworkingconstruction), Mr. Asakura (finish and french shellac polishing), Teruo Nakamura (setup: saddle, nut, etc.) and finally, Akio Naniki (final performance testing).

My GC-10 is a 662mm scale with Brazilian Rosewood (Jacaranda) sides,back and bridge, Ezo Spruce top, Honduras Mahogany neck and Ebony fretboard. A few pictures:
1971 Yamaha GC-10 Front Small.jpg
1971 Yamaha GC-10 Back Small.jpg
1971 Yamaha GC-10 Side Small.jpg
GC-10 Headstock small.jpg
Yamaha GC-10_site photo.jpg
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1971 Yamaha GC-10

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:28 pm

Repairs have been initiated on my Kuniharu Nobe #8, 1972, by "my" luthier, Mr. Christian Scwelenger, also a member of this Forum. It should be ready next January. Funny enough, beyond the fact that its arm is bent somehow, there are no scratches at all in the instrument. Christian says that, probably, it was not played at all. I think I'm a lucky fellow. I deposit great hope in this instrument :D.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/51, Spr, RW B&S, Tokio, JPN (under repair)
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40
1987 - Aria A558, 650/51, Ced, lam RW B&S, Nagoya, JPN
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CAN Ced, MDG RW B&S, Banyoles, ESP

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:51 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:28 pm
Repairs have been initiated on my Kuniharu Nobe #8, 1972, by "my" luthier, Mr. Christian Scwelenger, also a member of this Forum. It should be ready next January. Funny enough, beyond the fact that its arm is bent somehow, there are no scratches at all in the instrument. Christian says that, probably, it was not played at all. I think I'm a lucky fellow. I deposit great hope in this instrument :D.
Great news :mouton: With "arm" I suppose you mean "neck". So, what repairs are needed? Fingers crossed for you and the guitar!

/J
1977 - Kuniharu Nobe No.15
1997 - Dragan Musulin
2004 - Alain Raifort Grand Concert
2006 - Casimiro Lozano XXV Aniversario

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

MessyTendon
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by MessyTendon » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:03 pm

I just bought an Aria A554 black label guitar. Seems to be an oddity. There is an ink stamp on the inner brace of some luthier name..."matsukoa" I think...

The braces are nicely scalopped inside, the seven fan braces are nicely carved. The back is oddly constructed it would appear to be book matched brazilian rosewood veneer, yet the inner core is white wood...I presume it to be left over spruce, or maybe some sort of sycamore variety.

The top seems be opening up. It has many scratches...I think this was used as a folk guitar as the scratches seem like they were caused by a plectrum.

I can only say this it was 100$ guitar and it keeps growing on me in terms of sound. The trebles are a touch weak...and the basses so big and full.

I can always recommend a midrange japanese guitar over most production guitars.

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