floating bridge

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Jose Marques
Luthier
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:36 pm

floating bridge

Post by Jose Marques » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:39 am

Hello

Today i decided to read as mush as i can find articles about floating bridge in classical guitars
I know this type of bridges in other instruments, even in Guitarrra Portuguesa but in this one is all bone made.

have some of you made this experience?
What was the final verdict?

I never have done this in classical guitar but i see some good points like for example less hard wood glued in the soundboard, in this case is not even glued, bad point, as it is a small piece i believe, please correct me if i'm wrong, that if the strings came from bellow the sound board, will produce extreme weight in the small bridge, is this a thing that can collapse the soundboard? Please see the link bellow.
In the Guitarra Portuguesa is a small area as well, but inside the structure is prepared for that pressure and the strings came from the back os the guitar what produces a mush less intense angle.

Well i just started today reading about this i believe i will spend some time until i decide to do some test as well.

Other thing that is in my mind, if this works why we do not see mush luthiers doing this???

http://www.vorreiterguitars.com/?page_id=338
I'm a Luthier living in Bury st Edmunds UK

ChristianSchwengeler
Luthier
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:18 pm
Location: Lisbon Portugal

Re: floating bridge

Post by ChristianSchwengeler » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:25 am

Oscar Cardoso does build a classical with a pretty similar system. I made myself on my laboratory guitar a test, attaching the strings on a huge free ebony crossbar under the bridge and passing then the strings thru the top and using a floating bridge. The sound did not convince me at all and I abandoned the experience, and my conclusion is that the top does need to be under tension. On a classical guitar it is better to attach the strings on the top and not on an external point. Of course this test was about a diferent concept than your question.
These kind of bridges has been around and Stefan Schlemper and others also have models with split up bridges etc. In the end you can conclude that most of the concepts have been tried out by someone and it is an emancipation process and in the end the best concepts do survive and the others disappear.In the video you can see and hear the Oscar Cardoso model and it seams to be a nice sounding instrument
Youtube

Jose Marques
Luthier
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:36 pm

Re: floating bridge

Post by Jose Marques » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:17 am

Thank you Christian

yes i know Oscar, he as done other things as without back guitars as well.

I agree with you , lots of new ideas and some are really great and others are not.

The advantage at this days is we can read and trade ideas, even some ideas works better for one luthier then others, but in my opinion, the opinion of other luthiers is very important, even if they don't agree they have always their point of view.
I'm a Luthier living in Bury st Edmunds UK

ChristianSchwengeler
Luthier
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:18 pm
Location: Lisbon Portugal

Re: floating bridge

Post by ChristianSchwengeler » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:30 pm

Hi José,

I do like to exchange ideas too. On the other hand I have answered severeal times to portuguese members and my posts were pretty much ignored, as if they were a shame to comunicate publically , and I must say this is not polite and did stop answering to portuguese.

The without back classical guitar is not so well balanced, but aperantly the concept works well on traditional portugues guitars - but these instrument are much more on the treble side. I found allways that he should stick to the concepts which work well instead of insisting of inventing allways new things, but anyway he is an interessting luthier and as you can se his bridge concept works well.

see you around

Jose Marques
Luthier
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:36 pm

Re: floating bridge

Post by Jose Marques » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Thank you again Christian

about the portuguese members i don't know, but i know that in portugal some luthiers prefer to do no tell anyone the way they do and they achieve the "perfection"

i was lucky because i have learned with a very old man in alentejo, and we have other great luthiers not so "closed", but i have found , even here in the forum that this kind of thought continues.
maybe if that never happens we (portuguese luthiers) can have more visibility in the luthierie world, even build more portuguese guitars and teach now people, i wish to do that as soon i have the space, teach to do portuguese guitars as well.

be closed kill's the art of luthierie... imagine that spanish builders never teach except their own families... at this time maybe this forum does not exist and we do not have this chat.

i hope that i can visit you wen will be in portugal for holidays please keep in touch
Chears
I'm a Luthier living in Bury st Edmunds UK

Jose Marques
Luthier
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:36 pm

Re: floating bridge

Post by Jose Marques » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:06 pm

Other thing about no back guitars
I was in a chat were he and other luthier Fernando Meireles talk about theys lives as luthiers etc snd Oscar talk about this tecnique, i can prove and i do not tested it was only is word, but he said that guitars, even other instruments like bandolin, they change the sound depenfing were they are, for example the same instrument player in a small room and a big room.
Maybe one day i can have the chance to test that ;)
I'm a Luthier living in Bury st Edmunds UK

mqbernardo
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:30 pm

Re: floating bridge

Post by mqbernardo » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:12 pm

ChristianSchwengeler wrote:Hi José,

I do like to exchange ideas too. On the other hand I have answered severeal times to portuguese members and my posts were pretty much ignored, as if they were a shame to comunicate publically , and I must say this is not polite and did stop answering to portuguese.
Hi Christian, I don't know if I count as a luthier, but I value your insight. If by any chance I ignored something from you I do apologize. Regarding luthiers in Portugal I have met some very secretive (which I don't blame) and some very open and collaborative. fWIW I've learnt most everything I know from a friend here (Orlando Trindade, which I guess you both know) and from a friend I've made via delcamp (Alex Marian). I'm forever thankful for that.
Another design that incorporates a floating bridge is the selmer maccaferri guitar. If you want some info on that, just ask.

Jose Marques
Luthier
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:36 pm

Re: floating bridge

Post by Jose Marques » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:26 pm

Yes of course i know Orlando. I meet him in the beggining, or near, of his career.
Is a five star luthier and person.
I learned with him the french polish tecnic that he uses, and we tal very ofen in facebook as well.
About info about floating bridge if you have lers us know knowledge i never enougth :)
Chears
I'm a Luthier living in Bury st Edmunds UK

ChristianSchwengeler
Luthier
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:18 pm
Location: Lisbon Portugal

Re: floating bridge

Post by ChristianSchwengeler » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:52 pm

mqbernardo wrote: Hi Christian, I don't know if I count as a luthier, but I value your insight. If by any chance I ignored something from you I do apologize. Regarding luthiers in Portugal I have met some very secretive (which I don't blame) and some very open and collaborative. fWIW I've learnt most everything I know from a friend here (Orlando Trindade, which I guess you both know) and from a friend I've made via delcamp (Alex Marian). I'm forever thankful for that.
Another design that incorporates a floating bridge is the selmer maccaferri guitar. If you want some info on that, just ask.
I have absolutly no complaint about you and I was speaking generally about my experience on the forum.
Jose Marques wrote:Thank you again Christian


i hope that i can visit you wen will be in portugal for holidays please keep in touch
Chears
Absolutly! Let me know when you are in Lisbon.

Joel Laplane has a concept with an inner neck where strings are atached to. It is not a floating bridge, but an other concept which works , but I guess he abandoned it as he has the model not in his showcase any more
laplane.jpg



Youtube
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bacsidoan
Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:59 am

Re: floating bridge

Post by bacsidoan » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:31 pm

This topic has been discussed ad nauseam on the forum under many different disguises. For example please check out: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=101485

Pay attention to the words of wisdom by Alan Carruth in there and you probably will have most of your burning questions answered.

Jose Marques
Luthier
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:36 pm

Re: floating bridge

Post by Jose Marques » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:05 am

Thank you Bacsidoan i will chech it :)

thank you Christian, i will if i find :)

in fact that picture as give me some ideias, let me think and do some tests maybe this ideas are good or not
I'm a Luthier living in Bury st Edmunds UK

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