Life after rosewood

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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Trevor Gore
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Trevor Gore » Fri May 12, 2017 3:07 am

cfxguitar wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 3:45 am
Beautiful guitar!
attila57 wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 5:42 pm
BTW, the shown instrument looks great.
Thanks, Attila and Christian.

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Trevor Gore
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Trevor Gore » Fri May 12, 2017 3:08 am

Deleted double post. :roll:

StevSmar
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: Winnipeg Canada

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by StevSmar » Sat May 13, 2017 12:42 pm

I love the look of the Auz blackwood. That rosette is fantastic also.

(My grandmother had a beautiful set of Tasmanian Blackwood chairs that my mum said I could have if I move back to Australia... Guess I'll have to settle on a Blackwood guitar!)
Regards,

Steven from Winnipeg

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Krokmou
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:25 pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Krokmou » Sun May 21, 2017 11:18 am

French luthier Bastien Burlot is using bamboo on his new guitar model. The sustainability advantages are that it is a carbon neutral material, including transportation and production, because it create 30% more oxygen during its life than trees. The bonus ? You can make it looks exactly like rosewood. See the picture.

Image
Image

Source : http://bastienburlot.com/pge/actu/
Olivier Pozzo - French luthier - Spruce double-top guitar

Brian M
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Hartford, Connecticut area

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Brian M » Sun May 21, 2017 10:53 pm

Wow, that bamboo guitar looks beautiful. "Life finds a way." I wonder what it sounds like?

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Krokmou
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:25 pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Krokmou » Mon May 22, 2017 1:42 am

Olivier Pozzo - French luthier - Spruce double-top guitar

Paul Micheletti
Amateur luthier
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:48 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Paul Micheletti » Tue May 23, 2017 5:11 pm

I like the thought of bamboo. Very cheap and sustainable. Just have to get longer pieces without the knuckle joints which is a clear give-away that it is bamboo.

I've worked with bamboo flooring, and it has much more stiffness than hardwood. I wonder how it bends for sides?

On the humorous side... Dye it blue and call it a "blue grass" guitar!

craig bumgarner
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:51 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by craig bumgarner » Wed May 24, 2017 7:41 pm

Bamboo? Really? Pictures look good even if it is tinted or treated somehow. Can bamboo grow large enough to get solid back and sides out of? We see the occassional bamboo patch here and nothing I see there would do for solid. Or is this laminated or processed somehow? I looked around some, don't see anyone offering bamboo sets.

I too like walnut, for back, sides and necks. Here's one I did in curly French walnut:

IMG_9541 web.jpg
Have been using Rocklite Ebano for fingerboards and bridges. I wonder if it might be bamboo also?
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Paul Micheletti
Amateur luthier
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:48 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Paul Micheletti » Wed May 24, 2017 8:16 pm

Hi Craig,

That's a super beautiful walnut guitar there!

The dark stain on that bamboo guitar above nicely hides the fact that it is probably a 20-piece back. Lots of thin strips glued together. I find it remarkable that they were able to make long enough strips that they could omit the "knuckles" that you always see at bamboo segment joints. Particularly for the 30+ inch sides. There's a bamboo distributor near me, and I think I'll check them out to see if I can find super long stalk segments without knuckles.

RedCliff
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:26 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by RedCliff » Wed May 24, 2017 9:20 pm

I wouldn't imagine that the bamboo nodes have been omitted - just as the multi-piece back is hidden by the stain, so will the nodes. I've used lots of bamboo and Tonkin cane for making longbows and i'm 99.9% sure you would never get the gap between the nodes to be longer than a guitar rib. I'm guessing but I imagine the bamboo has been 'painted' or pore filled a neutral colour - white or cream, and then effectively had the rosewood grain applied over the top like an oil painting, hiding all the nodes and joints - similar to how you would do a repair on an antique table. Looks like great workmanship, but at the same time seems like a bit of a shame - if bamboo sounds good for back and sides - then why not leave it looking like Bamboo? I guess it doesn't sell.
Giles Ratcliffe
Sheffield
England

Jose Marques
Luthier
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:36 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Jose Marques » Thu May 25, 2017 11:42 am

i have used bamboo ins a guitarra portuguesa but just a small peice that i have used to put under the bridge, we call that peice PATALETA, the bridge of portuguese guitar is all bone and below we normally use bone as well, some time hardwood but mostly bone

wen i change , to test, the bone pataleta to a bamboo the guitar died, loss a lot of sound and the sound was darker, not a beautifull darker, just lost a lot of high frequencies.

but this is different, this is "just" back and sides the influnce of the sound is not a big deal...
I'm a Luthier living in Bury st Edmunds UK

craig bumgarner
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:51 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by craig bumgarner » Thu May 25, 2017 12:32 pm

Trevor, Beautiful work. Love your choice of woods and finish, a gorgeous aesthetic. I'm sure it sounds every bit as good as it looks. I appreciate the life after rosewood sentiment, have been slowly working the exotics out of my thinking. I have no rosewood in my guitars at this point. The one I'm building now will be the last with any ebony. Customers often ask for these exotics, but seem understanding once the sustainability is discussed. I have yet to lose a sale that I know of for the lack of rosewood and ebony.

Can I ask about the finish? When you say "off the rag" shellac, I can guess but can you expand on that a little? Just wipe on coats? Just a few? Many?
What does "no cut" mean?

I gather from the pictures you are not tinting. With light shellac coats, how would you stain or tint? Especially the top? In the genre I build, some tinting to replicate vintage guitars is desirable. I've been doing this by spraying tinted shellac early on in the FP process. Keeps it uniform, but it takes a number of FP sessions to bury the spray texture.

Also, why nitro on the neck? Durability?

Thanks!

Elman Concepcion
Luthier
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:03 pm
Location: Windermere, Florida USA

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Elman Concepcion » Thu May 25, 2017 4:05 pm

Krokmou wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 11:18 am
French luthier Bastien Burlot is using bamboo on his new guitar model. The sustainability advantages are that it is a carbon neutral material, including transportation and production, because it create 30% more oxygen during its life than trees. The bonus ? You can make it looks exactly like rosewood. See the picture.

Image
Image

Source : http://bastienburlot.com/pge/actu/
Nice ! Where can I get some bamboo that will work for building ?
Love to experiment with it.
Thanks
Elman

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eno
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Location: Boston, USA

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by eno » Thu May 25, 2017 4:07 pm

Sorry for an ignorant quiestion, I know nothing about guitar building. But the most important thing for me would be not the appearance but the sound. So how the type of back and side wood affects the sound? What are the sound characteristics of each type of wood?

I've heard a variety of opinioins from not affecting at all (like Torres building a guitar with cardboard back and sides) to affecting greatly and as a consequence of the latter point of view there is a an opinion that guiatrs bilt with high quality long-aged BRW are the best sounding ones. I find it unlikely that the material of the back/sides does not affect the sound as the back has it's own resonances and frequency responce that shape the sound as it gets reflected from the back to the soundboard.
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
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Elman Concepcion
Luthier
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:03 pm
Location: Windermere, Florida USA

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Elman Concepcion » Thu May 25, 2017 4:11 pm

eno wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 4:07 pm
Sorry for an ignorant quiestion, I know nothing about guitar building. But the most important thing for me would be not the appearance but the sound. So how the type of back and side wood affects the sound? What are the sound characteristics of each type of wood?

I've heard a variety of opinioins from not affecting at all (like Torres building a guitar with cardboard back and sides) to affecting greatly and as a consequence of the latter point of view there is a an opinion that guiatrs bilt with high quality long-aged BRW are the best sounding ones. I find it unlikely that the material of the back/sides does not affect the sound as the back has it's own resonances and frequency responce that shape the sound as it gets reflected from the back to the soundboard.
Look up Trevor Gore interview by Robert O'Brian

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