Life after rosewood

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Douglass Scott
Luthier
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:44 pm
Location: Ladysmith, Canada

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Douglass Scott » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:15 pm

iim7V7IM7 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 pm
No, unfortunately I cannot provide you with a comparison that you seek.

I can tell you that these materials in Peter's hands created a WONDERFUL guitar. When I commissioned this instrument, I asked him what woods that he had in his wood locker that he always wanted to build a guitar with? The answer was WRC and Black Cherry. The WRC set was also quite special acoustically, but had a bunch of distinct hard line that was likely to put off some players. Peter said this set was harvested from an Oregon forest in the 1980s.

Perhaps Peter will see your post and provide comment?
Thanks anyways. I get the sense cherry will be slightly less damping than maple and not have quite as dry of a sound. ... Knowing about your guitar gets me a nudge closer to giving it a try.

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David Norton
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Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by David Norton » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:31 pm

There's a gorgeous looking (and sounding) 2017 spruce and wenge classical by Antonio Raya Pardo listed on Zavaleta's site now. Apparently Raya Pardo considers wenge to be a good replacement for Braz on his high-end builds.
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

iim7V7IM7
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:41 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by iim7V7IM7 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:58 am

martinardo wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:30 pm
Bob, every time that I see your Oberg, I start uncontrollably drooling. That Torres inspired rosette

set against the WRC just does . . . something . . . to me :) A wonderful instrument, made,

seemingly, with a large amount of more sustainable materials.
I know the feeling well...:).

Perhaps, not being a classical player (I play jazz), perhaps I was less constrained as a client in the traditions associated with tonewoods allowing the luthier to explore a bit more? Much of the guitar's magic was cast by the mastery of its maker and the wonderful top that was used. The tonal "color" added by the Black Cherry and how it interacts while important is second order to those factors in my experience.
2015 - John Buscarino, 650 mm, Carpathian Spruce/Honduran Rosewood
2014 - Peter Oberg, 640 mm, Western Red Cedar/Black Cherry

iim7V7IM7
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:41 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by iim7V7IM7 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:03 pm

Douglass Scott wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:15 pm
iim7V7IM7 wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:49 pm
No, unfortunately I cannot provide you with a comparison that you seek.

I can tell you that these materials in Peter's hands created a WONDERFUL guitar. When I commissioned this instrument, I asked him what woods that he had in his wood locker that he always wanted to build a guitar with? The answer was WRC and Black Cherry. The WRC set was also quite special acoustically, but had a bunch of distinct hard line that was likely to put off some players. Peter said this set was harvested from an Oregon forest in the 1980s.

Perhaps Peter will see your post and provide comment?
Thanks anyways. I get the sense cherry will be slightly less damping than maple and not have quite as dry of a sound. ... Knowing about your guitar gets me a nudge closer to giving it a try.
Funny thing is about Maple is like Dalbergia, Maple has fairly broad range of tap to it. Some sets are dead and "punky" and others are much more lively. I have seen this more when working with luthiers on carved back instruments with both Bigleaf Maple and Sycamore Maple. You may indeed be correct about Black Cherry having lower damping on average though. I was merely saying that its interaction with the top is like more similar to higher damping woods than to more dense, glassy tropical hardwoods.

You should definitely give it a go...
2015 - John Buscarino, 650 mm, Carpathian Spruce/Honduran Rosewood
2014 - Peter Oberg, 640 mm, Western Red Cedar/Black Cherry

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Michael.N.
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Location: UK

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Michael.N. » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:59 pm

The American cherry seems to have better colour than the English cherry that I've had, not that I've had much. Mine was a bit of an insipid sandy colour with the odd bluish/grey vein. If you can get it towards a natural orange/reddish colour, so much the better. A bit of figure will probably make the finished instrument easier to sell too.
Historicalguitars.

iim7V7IM7
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:41 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by iim7V7IM7 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:58 pm

Here is a close up of the quartersawn curled figure...:). It of course darkens over time with exposure to light to gain a somewhat darker reddish hue than seen above.
Image
2015 - John Buscarino, 650 mm, Carpathian Spruce/Honduran Rosewood
2014 - Peter Oberg, 640 mm, Western Red Cedar/Black Cherry

astro64
Posts: 664
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:43 pm
Location: American Southwest

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by astro64 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:12 pm

David_Norton wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:31 pm
There's a gorgeous looking (and sounding) 2017 spruce and wenge classical by Antonio Raya Pardo listed on Zavaleta's site now. Apparently Raya Pardo considers wenge to be a good replacement for Braz on his high-end builds.
I have a spruce/wenge guitar. Wenger definitely has a lot of "zing" to the sound, like a hard rosewood. As a native African wood, I am not sure if it is really a long-term sustainable alternative to rosewoods.

Douglass Scott
Luthier
Posts: 491
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:44 pm
Location: Ladysmith, Canada

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Douglass Scott » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:43 pm

astro64 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:12 pm
I have a spruce/wenge guitar. Wenger definitely has a lot of "zing" to the sound, like a hard rosewood. As a native African wood, I am not sure if it is really a long-term sustainable alternative to rosewoods.
Wenge is listed as an endangerd species due to exploitation and deforestation but isn't in the CITES appendices yet. At the moment it's relatively easy to get, but I'm sure you're right that it's not a long-term alternative to RWs.

Sharkbait
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:10 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Sharkbait » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:33 pm

What does walnut sound like, compared to various rosewoods and maple? I like the look of it, the chocolate colour and the wavy lines (figure?). But I've never seen it in real life, and not heard it either AFAIK.

Is there any/much difference in tone between American black walnut and other walnuts? I seem to see American black walnut being explicitly names/mentioned, and wonder if it's seen as somehow superior (whether in sound or looks)?

iim7V7IM7
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:41 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by iim7V7IM7 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:49 pm

Here are three beautiful non-dalbergia back and side sets that I recently chose from for a future project. Australian Blackwood (left); European Pear (middle); and Black Limba (right). There are many beautiful alternatives out there.... :okok:

Image
2015 - John Buscarino, 650 mm, Carpathian Spruce/Honduran Rosewood
2014 - Peter Oberg, 640 mm, Western Red Cedar/Black Cherry

Jose Marques
Luthier
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:36 pm

Re: Life after rosewood

Post by Jose Marques » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:58 pm

here other wood Abrosia Maple, soon finished

maple is a great alternative i love it, now im testing this ambrosia maple , soon zizicote and walnut i hope to do some kind of test if people interested, maybe see a place that we can do just a event with non rosewood instruments... ideas??

Image
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